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There are states with low property taxes. But I see your point. To me, NJ's level of property taxation is absurd, so I guess it's a matter of degree. You can own a home outright for whatever reason and have a low income. But you can't stay in that home because you can't afford the property taxes. That's wrong to me
No I totally agree. I toyed with the idea of using some of my little nest egg as a down payment but decided it wasn’t worth the hassle .
I believe that you are correct.
And, it is entirely possible that one might want to buy a co-op apartment, but not be approved by the Co-Op Board.
When Richard Nixon attempted to buy a luxury co-op on NYC's Upper East Side, he was turned-down as being "undesirable".
That was when he bought his final home, in Saddle River, NJ.
For what it's worth smart money is fleeing from NYC co-ops and going to condos or row or town houses and mansions now for about a decade or two. Virtually all the new development (of which there is plenty) in NYC, especially Manhattan is condo, and this includes everything on "Billionaires Row" (57th Street).
People are sick and fed up with the intrusive process including having to prepare a board package that basically means opening up all your personal business since 8th grade for a bunch of strangers to paw over. All to be told they either want to know more, or that you're not good enough.
Yeah, there are those who will kiss anyone's behind to get into the famous co-ops on Sutton Place, Fifth, Park or Madison avenues, and CPW/UWS, but increasingly others are telling them to go pound salt.
In many of these buildings you are finding the last dinosaurs of WASPS and certain Jews. The "old money" New Yorkers or whatever.
Meanwhile young people and plenty of new money has moved downtown. Prices per square foot for condos or townhouses below say 23rd street have passed the UES for a few years now.
Jeff Bezos, a man with more money than God, who could live anywhere in Manhattan and probably would be a catch for any UES co-op, chose Greenwich Village (Greenwich Lane condos, built on former Saint Vincent's hospital) where he dropped (IIRC) 40 million for his apartment.
Mark Zuckerberg and his family live down in Greenwich Village, along with plenty of new/tech money. Bradley Cooper just spent 10 million for a townhouse/mansion down there joining the rest.
Why don't people like NYC co-ops? Well besides the board package you have to understand by definition living in a co-op is just that; cooperative living. It isn't like a private home where you can do what you want. Rules can be as loose or strict as board makes them; and you (the shareholder) have to comply. If you don't you can be sat down and spoken to, get a nasty letter from board's attorney, and or actually be thrown out. https://www.brickunderground.com/live/nyc-coop-troubles
For what it's worth smart money is fleeing from NYC co-ops and going to condos or row or town houses and mansions now for about a decade or two. Virtually all the new development (of which there is plenty) in NYC, especially Manhattan is condo, and this includes everything on "Billionaires Row" (57th Street).
People are sick and fed up with the intrusive process including having to prepare a board package that basically means opening up all your personal business since 8th grade for a bunch of strangers to paw over. All to be told they either want to know more, or that you're not good enough.
Yeah, there are those who will kiss anyone's behind to get into the famous co-ops on Sutton Place, Fifth, Park or Madison avenues, and CPW/UWS, but increasingly others are telling them to go pound salt.
In many of these buildings you are finding the last dinosaurs of WASPS and certain Jews. The "old money" New Yorkers or whatever.
Meanwhile young people and plenty of new money has moved downtown. Prices per square foot for condos or townhouses below say 23rd street have passed the UES for a few years now.
Jeff Bezos, a man with more money than God, who could live anywhere in Manhattan and probably would be a catch for any UES co-op, chose Greenwich Village (Greenwich Lane condos, built on former Saint Vincent's hospital) where he dropped (IIRC) 40 million for his apartment.
Mark Zuckerberg and his family live down in Greenwich Village, along with plenty of new/tech money. Bradley Cooper just spent 10 million for a townhouse/mansion down there joining the rest.
Why don't people like NYC co-ops? Well besides the board package you have to understand by definition living in a co-op is just that; cooperative living. It isn't like a private home where you can do what you want. Rules can be as loose or strict as board makes them; and you (the shareholder) have to comply. If you don't you can be sat down and spoken to, get a nasty letter from board's attorney, and or actually be thrown out. https://www.brickunderground.com/live/nyc-coop-troubles
While what you say is true, for most people not in the rarefied financial air of Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, if you have the money, you can buy into in co-op. The vast bulk of co-ops in all of NYC only care about paying the bills. Most co-ops will never go beyond your financial situation - just like when you get a mortgage. Co-ops tend to be cheaper and they have always been cheaper than condos.
Some person earning a salary that can afford a 1 bedroom in a Brooklyn (or any other borough) co-op is not going to get the "Madonna" treatment. They are just going to purchase their shares and move in.
While what you say is true, for most people not in the rarefied financial air of Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, if you have the money, you can buy into in co-op. The vast bulk of co-ops in all of NYC only care about paying the bills. Most co-ops will never go beyond your financial situation - just like when you get a mortgage. Co-ops tend to be cheaper and they have always been cheaper than condos.
Some person earning a salary that can afford a 1 bedroom in a Brooklyn (or any other borough) co-op is not going to get the "Madonna" treatment. They are just going to purchase their shares and move in.
Co-ops are co-ops, and known of and or read about shareholders in small six or five floor buildings having same issues as "white glove" larger buildings.
Again just look at NYC real estate, in particular the boom in multi-family construction going on the past nearly decade or so. Nil to none are new co-ops, but rather all of it are condos.
Leaving aside various niggles about co-op living, there are practical reasons why many prefer condos.
Historically banks or anyone else didn't like lending for purchasing shares of co-op. Because they are just that; lending money against shares, not actual real estate. If the need to foreclose arises lender may have a very difficult time if ever getting the property. While they may be able to sell off the shares, the co-op does *NOT* have to allow whomever purchases to get the apartment.
Condos OTOH can be financed with a mortgage same as any other property such as a home. This is one reason why upper middle and above have been fleeing from NYC co-ops lately. While there are probably some out there, unlike co-ops you don't see "all cash" condos.
Condos by law also cannot restrict sales the way co-ops can. All a condo board has is right of first refusal. If they cannot meet seller's number, then they have to step aside. Thus obviously a condo is far more of a liquid asset than owning shares in a co-op.
Am not disputing all that you've posted, but on average the boom in condo and private house (town, row, mansion) in Manhattan, Brooklyn and even Queens is being driven by persons who want something different than co-op apartment.
The property taxes in NJ are killing us. We do not have children in school, but the townships keep asking for more $$$ for non-critical, non-educational improvements (turf fields, air conditioning, etc). While I agree that it takes a village to raise children, and I am willing to chip in for good schools, my taxes should be paying for education - not extra-curricular activities to keep your kids occupied. Are there any towns in NJ where we can buy a 2000 sf house and pay less than $7,000 in property taxes?
The property taxes in NJ are killing us. We do not have children in school, but the townships keep asking for more $$$ for non-critical, non-educational improvements (turf fields, air conditioning, etc). While I agree that it takes a village to raise children, and I am willing to chip in for good schools, my taxes should be paying for education - not extra-curricular activities to keep your kids occupied. Are there any towns in NJ where we can buy a 2000 sf house and pay less than $7,000 in property taxes?
Taxes are crippling every one. I had thought about moving back, but didn't want to buy and rents are totally insane. You can not find anything decent in most of the state for under $1500 a month and those are bare bone apts.
I looked at new apts right off route 15 in Rockaway, technically they are closer to Jefferson, $1800 for a one bedroom. I am not paying $21,600 a year in rent.
Again it comes down to the taxes as the company who owns them are paying high taxes so it trickles down to the rents.
There are no affordable rentals in NJ unless you fall under HUD guidelines for subsidized or apts based on income. Middle class is screwed
There are co-ops in Shrewsbury Township. They were once military housing for the now-closed Fort Monmouth about a mile away but became a private co-op decades ago.
I know some people who live there. They joke that if you sneeze, someone from three units away will yell "Gesundheit!"
It is a cute and inexpensive little community, though.
There are also still co-op buildings in Fort Lee. My ex-husband is the building super for one of them. He took me on a tour when I visited him a few months ago. 400+ units, gorgeous outdoor pool, indoor pool, fitness center...
A lot of the Fort Lee co-ops will eventually go condo, though.
There are co-ops in Shrewsbury Township. They were once military housing for the now-closed Fort Monmouth about a mile away but became a private co-op decades ago.
I know some people who live there. They joke that if you sneeze, someone from three units away will yell "Gesundheit!"
It is a cute and inexpensive little community, though.
There are also still co-op buildings in Fort Lee. My ex-husband is the building super for one of them. He took me on a tour when I visited him a few months ago. 400+ units, gorgeous outdoor pool, indoor pool, fitness center...
A lot of the Fort Lee co-ops will eventually go condo, though.
very interesting, the Shrewsbury one, all though the realtor listed has an awful site, will see if listings come up on realtor dot com
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