Lobbyists, Bribes and Gifts (Hope: school, live in, centers)

[dracul]

Again, Kid, oddly enough I find myself agreeing with you enthusiastically! Salient points all. Bush is hell-bent on leaving a scorched earth starting point for the Obama team to inherit. Rarely has such towering evil been seen in American politics, dirty and despicable as such pastimes characteristically are. It is unfortunate that the weak-willed Democrats have no stomach for impeachment and indictments which would inevitably lead to felony charges against these horrific villains. The evidence for this criminal regime's involvement in numerous illicit political/legal machinations is well documented; only the extreme (head in the proverbial sand) neo-con/right wing whacko's chose to ignore the mounting disgusting evidence chronicling these staggering abuses of power. I always chuckle when dubious-dubya calls some potentate a fascist, or corrupt or evil as it's so clearly an example of THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!!! "Signs and wonders", in the parlance of Tommy Lee Jones' character in No Country For Old Men

I mourn for my country that we have had to endure such profligate criminality under the bush/cheney thug-regime. But I rejoice in the hope that a new direction, stewarded by a much wiser and capable President (along with a deep talent pool of course), may begin to extricate "we the people" from this abysmal sewer these elitist, cowardly rich-boys have thrust us into. "The gravest form of evil is that which cloaks itself in the mantle of virtue!" Truth be spoken....

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by domino

But totally off topic.

yeah, but this topic went off the rails at around roughly post 9 or 10. I decided to speak up.

Our founding fathers intended our government to be limited, and at heart, de-centralized. It's apparent by the content of some of these posts that our lives are affected most greatly by the head of the ticket, which is to say, the president. These people need a crash course in civics. Your local and state reps do much more to influence your life than does the President of the USA. Additionally, the executive branch of government, in theory, is probably the branch where the least amount of decisions are made that will negatively or positively influence your well being. Both the legislative and (especially) the judiciary branches hold way more sway. But to examine the misdeeds of these branches requires, on the part of the average American, a lot more brain power. Saying "it's all Bush's fault" and "wealthy buddies" requires a low two digit IQ. The origins, and current problems in our system of government run a hell of a lot deeper.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by dracul

Sorry mike but the profound evidence contradicting your simplistic points can be obtained from many, many sources. Educate yourself and turn off your infernal Fox Noise Certainly enough blame can be spread not only to cover MOST OF YOUR ODIOUS PARTY'S dismal membership, but a good portion of the flaccid Democrats as well. If you have not noticed these bleak times emanating from uber-capitalism and your supremely corrupt and duplicitous "grand ole party", in very large part then you are either naive, blind...or part of the problem (my guess). It is you who desperately needs to see the light buddy. ~75% of the American electorate already has! The depths of this despicable problem has deep roots indeed, esp. among your greedy, anything goes, power at any cost cohorts, be they dems, repubs, independents or just plain morons such as your beloved dimwit dubya. Pathetic.

I don't watch Fox News, and for that matter, don't watch much TV other than football.

I am not a Republican, a registered Republican, or otherwise. But I do believe in capitalism. I think it's a preferrable system of government, albiet imperfect. It's intended to reward merit, not people who choose to stay home (except for the first of every month) and watch "The Price Is Right" on TV. And if you want a first hand account as to what an alternative system of government produces, I suggest you get on I-10, and drive about 50 miles south of Las Cruces, over the Rio Grande into the pits of hell. See how successful that government has been with regard to giving its citizens a better way of life.

[Pintada Kid]

It would be interesting to know all these big companies that we are bailing out that fleeced us for years with high interest rates and other gimmicks. Use that Money that they dont have to account for? Also It would be interesting to know how many 100s of billions were paid to executives all over the Nation? How many people became Multi Millionaires or Billionaires in such short. My Way of thinking is this.... Kid Tip... YOU CAN ONLY AMASS SO MUCH WEALTH and SO MUCH LAND IN ANY AREA OF THE WORLD BEFORE YOU START TO TAKE OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF THE POOR AND STARVATIONS AND WARS START AND IF OUR GOVERNMENT DOESNT STEP IN To FEED THE POOR AND HUNGRY AND KEEP THEM FROM FREEZING OR LOSING THEIR HOME THEN WE CREATE INSTANT WAR WITHIN OUR COUNTRY WHERE WE WONT KNOW WHO THE ENEMY IS. If the Wealthy that are filty rich dont share the Loot they stole from these people they will eventually go down too when people get hungry enough. And America will be Ripe for the Picking and im sure that Muslims and Asians are more aware about this then we are. el pintada kid

[dracul]

We all see what hyper-capitalism and its attendant corruption have done to the banking/hedge fund investment industries, among many others. Please extol and lavish praise on these bleak pillars of maximum-capitalism, Mike. I don't see many who share your pie-eyed enthusiasm of late. Certain CONSTRAINTS MUST BE PUT IN PLACE. Otherwise your mega-buck, end-justifies-the-means upper-bougeois buddies will complete their cynical decimation of the American working class. Maybe you ought to read a bit of Lou Dobbs to fill in the gaping voids in your perspective. Four more years of your neo cons and we might have become transitional or convergent with the wildly disparate wealth distributive regimes, such as Mexico's. The objective of your laissez faire/uber capitalist chums is deregulation and unstructured commerce at any cost. A sort of Darwinian free-for-all that operates according to its own internal momentum. Free-enterprise off the chain; free to obliterate those neophytes/"average Joes" who may have innovative ideas but who unfortunately stand in the way of your corporate/oil industry/pharmaceutical/lending-banking juggernauts. We've all witnessed their largess and altruism lately. They take multi-billion dollar bailouts for failing enterprises and then have the unmittigated gall to issue themselves $200 million bonuses. These wretches should be facing firing squads. In case you have not been following current events, pal, this country is teetering on the brink of collapse...largely due to your unfettered heroes of bottomless greed! I'm done with this stupidity

[Vinegaroon]

Stop blaming executives, lawyers and politicians. Most of them are hard working individuals, and the greedy ones are the exception. Kid, I disagree with you that the solution is to redistribute the wealth to the poor unless they can't work. One of our founding fathers had some good comments regarding redistributing wealth:

“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816

“A wise and frugal government … shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”

[dracul]

Capitalism, like any dynamic entity, must be constrained, at least in part, by sagacity and egalitarian rules of conduct, else it devolves into the monstrous chaos now threatening world stability. You hyper-capitalists have clearly proven you cannot be entrusted with the collective welfare of our country's citizenry. You will bleed us dry and steal us blind. Just such examples are appearing on headlines all over the planet currently. You're either part of the solution...or part of the problem...with most of the floundering "middle class" losing ground with each passing day.

.........AND BY THE WAY, MIKE, I HOPE YOU ARE NOT SUGGESTING I SIT AROUND WATCHING SIT COMS ALL DAY, waiting for handouts. I have worked as hard or harder in my brutal life than any or all of you on this board. Period. I've worked so damn hard I've destroyed my body! NO ONE HAS WALKED THE WALK BETTER THAN I. I would have made better choices along the way, improving my present lot, but I've sweated and toiled with the best of 'em; MAKING THE MOST OF EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES. Know it buddy, I've written my story in blood sweat and tears. I'll stand eye to eye with you any day of the year.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by dracul

Capitalism, like any dynamic entity, must be constrained, at least in part, by sagacity and egalitarian rules of conduct, else it devolves into the monstrous chaos now threatening world stability. You hyper-capitalists have clearly proven you cannot be entrusted with the collective welfare of our country's citizenry. You will bleed us dry and steal us blind. Just such examples are appearing on headlines all over the planet currently. You're either part of the solution...or part of the problem...with most of the floundering "middle class" losing ground with each passing day.

.........AND BY THE WAY, MIKE, I HOPE YOU ARE NOT SUGGESTING I SIT AROUND WATCHING SIT COMS ALL DAY, waiting for handouts. I have worked as hard or harder in my brutal life than any or all of you on this board. Period. I've worked so damn hard I've destroyed my body! NO ONE HAS WALKED THE WALK BETTER THAN I. I would have made better choices along the way, improving my present lot, but I've sweated and toiled with the best of 'em; MAKING THE MOST OF EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES. Know it buddy, I've written my story in blood sweat and tears. I'll stand eye to eye with you any day of the year.

You are not the problem, then. My hat is off to you in fact. It sounds like you are a blue collar worker. I admire you. You are probably capable of performing tasks with your hands that I wouldn't have the faintest clue of doing.

However, where I part company with you is where your political axe is to grind. I would venture to say that your labor was the result of a private sector firm. Someone took a good chance on you and gave you a job. What you are advocating for, in essence, is for the government to intercede in this business, in everyone's business, in some way. But what you fail to realize is that save for defense and military, the government creates NOTHING. Nor was it ever intended to, for that matter. It was intended to fortify our borders, uphold the laws of our land, and to provide for our national defense. It comes back to functions, and what we believe them to be. As I interpret it, our Constitution intended our government to be limited to defense, police, and the court system. Today, too many are desirous of government being a panacea, or a watchdog, for every conceivable malady that exists within our society, financial and otherwise. But the government can't function this way. It has screwed up in every way shape, matter and form, even per some of your posts. There is 54 trillion in unsecured debt in this country that has its antecedents in the New Deal, and the Great Society. We are playing a veritable generation game of "Russian Roulette" and that gun is going to come back at the next generation, perhaps two generations from now. And the big, big offenders are "entitlements" in the form of SS, Medicare, Section 8, etc. They are not the result of tax breaks for millionaires. They are a result of arrogant, federal social engineering policies that have their ugly tentacles institutionally dug into the fabric of our society for the last 70 years. You claim to be a libertarian but in fact there is essentially no libertarian content in your posts. In fact, your posts are the opposite: they advocate statism.

[dracul]

You are mistaken in your limited claims for state responsibility for infrastructure. AS citizens of a collective republic we are responsible for maintaining the foundational piers of that vast network. In privatizing this infrastructure we see neglect rampant about the country. We see roadways and bridges and sundry public use structures crumbling into decay. Your capitalists are doing naught to salvage any of these items unless they are compelled to do so by some regulatory means. This is where I part company with the Libertarians and adopt a most centrist/populist viewpoint. We are none of us monolithic. The state, if it is to have relevance and be self-sustaining, must address these essential issues.

Personally, I've worn many hats. I've worked at various construction duties, including heavy machinery. I'm also a former police officer, corrections officer and inmate grievance coordinator. I'm a landlord of a few properties in three states and a former bar owner. I've owned three businesses to date. I'm a graphic artist and tattooist currently and a certified personal trainer. I formerly enjoyed eight years as a field archaeologist having published two independent studies on Maui prehistoric sites (as part of EIS assessments). I contributed cartography, site reconstructions and artifact renderings until the mid-nineties to the firm I loved so much. My education is eclectic but considerable and I've earned a Highest Honors BS in Anthropology with a minor in Biology. I was on full academic scholarship from my Sophomore year to graduation. One of my research papers on adult onset diabetes mellitus (type II) garnered me some passing recognition as well. Although I've excelled in numerous other academies and certification programs since, my biggest blunder as a tempestuous youth, was leaving archaeology (little monetary pay<->mucho self actualization) to enter criminal justice. Everyone was urging me to reach for a Doctorate as I had the high marks and love of the field. During these years I also competed in bodybuilding, powerlifting and arm wrestling events, winning or placing usually. Alas, ultimately I became an "everyman" instead of it all and an advocate for the common people and the disenfranchised...so sue me.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by dracul

You are mistaken in your limited claims for state responsibility for infrastructure. AS citizens of a collective republic we are responsible for maintaining the foundational piers of that vast network. In privatizing this infrastructure we see neglect rampant about the country. We see roadways and bridges and sundry public use structures crumbling into decay. Your capitalists are doing naught to salvage any of these items unless they are compelled to do so by some regulatory means. This is where I part company with the Libertarians and adopt a most centrist/populist viewpoint. We are none of us monolithic. The state, if it is to have relevance and be self-sustaining, must address these essential issues.

Personally, I've worn many hats. I've worked at various construction duties, including heavy machinery. I'm also a former police officer, corrections officer and inmate grievance coordinator. I'm a landlord of a few properties in three states and a former bar owner. I've owned three businesses to date. I'm a graphic artist and tattooist currently and a certified personal trainer. I formerly enjoyed eight years as a field archaeologist having published two independent studies on Maui prehistoric sites (as part of EIS assessments). I contributed cartography, site reconstructions and artifact renderings until the mid-nineties to the firm I loved so much. My education is eclectic but considerable and I've earned a Highest Honors BS in Anthropology with a minor in Biology. I was on full academic scholarship from my Sophomore year to graduation. One of my research papers on adult onset diabetes mellitus (type II) garnered me some passing recognition as well. Although I've excelled in numerous other academies and certification programs since, my biggest blunder as a tempestuous youth, was leaving archaeology (little monetary pay<->mucho self actualization) to enter criminal justice. Everyone was urging me to reach for a Doctorate as I had the high marks and love of the field. During these years I also competed in bodybuilding, powerlifting and arm wrestling events, winning or placing usually. Alas, ultimately I became an "everyman" instead of it all and an advocate for the common people and the disenfranchised...so sue me.

I don't want to sue you, in fact, I think your background is quite fascinating. It sounds like you've lead a quite fulfilling life.