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You seem to have a general dislike of hipsters and yuppies. I would suggest that not all hipsters and yuppies are from the midwest, or lack deep NYC roots. She will respect Brooklyns history, but she will not necessarily attempt to live like her grandparents did. Brooklyn's history is one of change, ever since Anglo suburbanites displaced Dutch farmers.
Never did I say that anyone should live like their grandparents did. Just to show some respect for where you currently inhabit, even if you are from here (which c'mon man, is not the case for the most part for what I am talkin about).
Being humble is one of the best traits that people can show. And I am sure you raised your daughter right, so I don't really know why you're arguing with me here. I am not talking to folk like you.....
I was born and raised in Brooklyn and am older than dirt, ain't nobody I ever heard mis- pronounced the word Brooklyn.
WTF are you talking about?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by omigawd
They pronounce is Brook-laaaan? and sound like idiots. What are they imitating when they say "Manhaddin"???? That's even more annoying!
As I said in my second post, you must not have spent much time in north brooklyn these days. And if that's where you are, then you must not get out much.......
"it is that that old dingy bar on the corner could soooo much be better utilized as a fair trade, conflict free, organic coffee shop......"
commitment to causes and social justice goes back in brooklyn to the time of henry ward beecher (not to mention the socialists and communists whose domain spanned from Flatbush to Brownsville in the 1930s). Its just as deeply rooted as dingy bars (which no one in MY family would have had anything do with - well except maybe sell something to - since 1910)
Ya know, I don't know how long you have been away from the city or how often you come for a visit. But you may feel the same way if you experienced in such a relatively short amount of time a bunch of spoiled, entitled brats who poo poo over everything that established neighborhoods have, and want nothing more than to transform them to their comfortable suburban life styles. You may know what I'm talkin about if you experienced it long enough.
Ya know, I don't know how long you have been away from the city or how often you come for a visit. But you may feel the same way if you experienced in such a relatively short amount of time a bunch of spoiled, entitled brats who poo poo over everything that established neighborhoods have, and want nothing more than to transform them to their comfortable suburban life styles. You may know what I'm talkin about if you experienced it long enough.
I have lived away a long time, but I visit regularly, my inlaws live there. I walked along Bedford in both North AND South Williamsburg a few days ago. And most other cities I have lived in since have experienced gentrification.
It was virtually inevitable that the old ethnic working class would move out of brooklyn with the decline of industy. That happened in cities (like Detroit and Cleveland) where they were NOT replaced by yuppies. The alternative to yuppiefication was a concentration of poverty, or rapid population decline, or both. That young people, whether with NYC roots or NOT, have rebuilt neighborhoods like N Williamsburg, Park Slope, etc, etc is a profoundly good thing. And its in keeping with what has happened in the boro since the early 19th century.
That they like coffee bars more than dingy whisky bars is neither here nor there. The brooklyn neighborhood I grew up in was mainly Jewish and had few bars. It was adjacent to an Italian area, that, IIUC, had espresso machines before they became fashionable. If the young prefer to pay extra for their espresso to subsidize some central american peasants (which is what fair trade coffee amounts too) I am not going to criticize them for that. If they want it shade grown, well more power to them. And if they prefer a clean, well lighted place, to someplace dark and dingy, I can only support them in that preference. I am sure a few are spoiled and entitled. Though again, I can't see how wanting to pay MORE for coffee to help some campesinos shows that.
I am sure that if my DD moves to Brooklyn, it will be to an area like that - she has already expressed an interest in N Williamsburg - I dont think she realizes how expensive it is. She is not spoiled or entitled or snobby - though I certainly expect she will spend more time in coffee bars than in dingy whiskey bars. She will inevitably help transform an area like that that she moves to.
"want nothing more than to transform them to their comfortable suburban life styles"
I am not sure what you mean by that. The coop apt I grew up in was comfortable. What it lacked vs the suburbs was central air, a basement, and free parking on site. AFAICT most of the brooklyn yuppies and hipsters still go without basements and free parking. As for central air, my parents, who lived through the depression, would have been delighted if our building had had it. I dont call anyone spoiled for moving to a building with central air, if they can afford it.
When I was a 20 something I lived in inner city Baltimore. I was not snobby or entitled. But I didn't go to the dingy bars (which Baltimore had in abundance) , i lived in renovated buildings, and as soon as the coffee bar thing started, I went to them. With joy. I even regretted when starbucks muscled in on the mom and pop coffee houses. Sorry.
hell, I even went to gallery openings and indie film houses. Hate me if you must.
I have lived away a long time, but I visit regularly, my inlaws live there. I walked along Bedford in both North AND South Williamsburg a few days ago. And most other cities I have lived in since have experienced gentrification.
It was virtually inevitable that the old ethnic working class would move out of brooklyn with the decline of industy. That happened in cities (like Detroit and Cleveland) where they were NOT replaced by yuppies. The alternative to yuppiefication was a concentration of poverty, or rapid population decline, or both. That young people, whether with NYC roots or NOT, have rebuilt neighborhoods like N Williamsburg, Park Slope, etc, etc is a profoundly good thing. And its in keeping with what has happened in the boro since the early 19th century.
That they like coffee bars more than dingy whisky bars is neither here nor there. The brooklyn neighborhood I grew up in was mainly Jewish and had few bars. It was adjacent to an Italian area, that, IIUC, had espresso machines before they became fashionable. If the young prefer to pay extra for their espresso to subsidize some central american peasants (which is what fair trade coffee amounts too) I am not going to criticize them for that. If they want it shade grown, well more power to them. And if they prefer a clean, well lighted place, to someplace dark and dingy, I can only support them in that preference. I am sure a few are spoiled and entitled. Though again, I can't see how wanting to pay MORE for coffee to help some campesinos shows that.
I am sure that if my DD moves to Brooklyn, it will be to an area like that - she has already expressed an interest in N Williamsburg - I dont think she realizes how expensive it is. She is not spoiled or entitled or snobby - though I certainly expect she will spend more time in coffee bars than in dingy whiskey bars. She will inevitably help transform an area like that that she moves to.
"want nothing more than to transform them to their comfortable suburban life styles"
I am not sure what you mean by that. The coop apt I grew up in was comfortable. What it lacked vs the suburbs was central air, a basement, and free parking on site. AFAICT most of the brooklyn yuppies and hipsters still go without basements and free parking. As for central air, my parents, who lived through the depression, would have been delighted if our building had had it. I dont call anyone spoiled for moving to a building with central air, if they can afford it.
While everything you say is fine and I agree with some of it, the one thing that you may be not understanding is the obnoxious attitude that is so unbelievably prevalent in a lot of these "revitalized" neighborhoods. The level of elitism by many of these people is very frustrating to people that have grown up in the area. Complaining about an old time pub that has been around for generations and blogging about how it needs to be done away with because they don't frequent it is the epitome of snobbery.
Just observations that I and many, many people that I know have made.....
When I was a 20 something I lived in inner city Baltimore. I was not snobby or entitled. But I didn't go to the dingy bars (which Baltimore had in abundance) , i lived in renovated buildings, and as soon as the coffee bar thing started, I went to them. With joy. I even regretted when starbucks muscled in on the mom and pop coffee houses. Sorry.
hell, I even went to gallery openings and indie film houses. Hate me if you must.
I'm not hating on you at all. I personally love good film and things of that nature.
And obviously I don't think there is anything wrong with cafes. For christsakes cafes have been around before my great grandfather was but a twinkle. I love coffee. Even different flavored kinds sometimes.
But when these establishments start popping up like fungus where it comes to a point that you can't find a cup of regular coffee for a buck; then there is something inherently wrong with that. If you can't walk into a cafe wearing dirty work clothes with some grime on your face without getting dirty looks from some professional blogger; then there is something inherently wrong with that...
While everything you say is fine and I agree with some of it, the one thing that you may be not understanding is the obnoxious attitude that is so unbelievably prevalent in a lot of these "revitalized" neighborhoods. The level of elitism by many of these people is very frustrating to people that have grown up in the area. Complaining about an old time pub that has been around for generations and blogging about how it needs to be done away with because they don't frequent it is the epitome of snobbery.
Just observations that I and many, many people that I know have made.....
Sounds to me like there is one particular blog post that has gotten your goat.
If its okay with the TOS, Id like to see it, otherwise private message it to me, so I can see.
I am pretty sure its not only hipsters in north brooklyn who write obnoxious blog posts though.
But when these establishments start popping up like fungus where it comes to a point that you can't find a cup of regular coffee for a buck;
try finding a place that sells ham and eggs on Lee Avenue in S. Williamsburg. Try finding a decent Greek diner in Chinatown. Try finding a good russian tea room in Staten Island.
Birds of a feather flock together, esp in NYC. Sometimes, when a nabe changes, thats hard on those left there from an earlier age.
Where in Brooklyn can you find a decent rural Dutch meal?
Sounds to me like there is one particular blog post that has gotten your goat.
If its okay with the TOS, Id like to see it, otherwise private message it to me, so I can see.
I am pretty sure its not only hipsters in north brooklyn who write obnoxious blog posts though.
Definitely not just one blog, there are many. And you have to read the comments on them. From everything like brownstoner.com to curbed to the thousands of independent blogs by the current creative class of the city. Yes it's fine, anybody can do whatever they want. This is a free country. I love the internet. I am on a message board as we speak.
And I know it's not just north brooklyn, I never said that. But there is a large concentration of them living there. And we are talking about nyc on this thread.
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