Building admin penalties (New York, York: for sale, real estate, apartment)
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I am a condo owner in a Brooklyn apartment. My building administration published a rule stating that a penalty of $250 will be imposed on anybody leaving trash in the trash room instead of putting into the trash shute. I received a letter from the building administration charging me the $250 arguing that a member of the staff saw my housekeeper leave a trash bag in the trash room. She denies this. I have asked the building administration to show me proof and they refuse. Now they threaten me with a $50 late fee if I don't pay the penalty. The question that I have is: can a building administration act in such an arbitrary manner and impose penalties just like that with no proof? I find this abusive. What would you do? Any ideas? I would hate to pay this penalty like this.
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I am a condo owner in a Brooklyn apartment. My building administration published a rule stating that a penalty of $250 will be imposed on anybody leaving trash in the trash room instead of putting into the trash shute. I received a letter from the building administration charging me the $250 arguing that a member of the staff saw my housekeeper leave a trash bag in the trash room. She denies this. I have asked the building administration to show me proof and they refuse. Now they threaten me with a $50 late fee if I don't pay the penalty. The question that I have is: can a building administration act in such an arbitrary manner and impose penalties just like that with no proof? I find this abusive. What would you do? Any ideas? I would hate to pay this penalty like this.
Any advice that you get on here should be taken with a grain of salt.
I would pay the fine but put it in escrow, this should prevent them from adding on late fees.
Read the NY State Attorney Generals website for advice on resolving conflicts with condo boards. You may also consider filing a complaint with them or the Public Advocate for the City of New York. Of course you could also hire an attorney.
I would definitely fight this and if they refuse to dismiss it hire an attorney and drag it out in litigation. Simply have the attorney send a letter on your behalf, making the condo association aware you have representation and plan to take them to court if they don't dismiss the fine. The letter should also indicate you will be suing the condo board for defamation and harassment. Once you have the attorney send the letter, you should direct all further contact directly to your attorney, and not discuss further with the condo board. Unfortunately, this is the only thing they listen to.
Ok, thanks for the advise. Any advise on an attorney to hire in NYC? I've never done suhc a thing. I assume the cost of the attorney will be higher than the fine so that's why the Condo board abuses people like this. People usually never hire an attorney to fight a $250 fine.
Yes the cost of a good lawyer wil be more than $250. But consider it, as SoBro says, an investment: They will think twice before they ever mess with you again. And the chances are very slight that they will litigate this. Though some boards might be crzay and mean enough to do this, few would ever want to spend the time and money to do so.
I would definitely fight this and if they refuse to dismiss it hire an attorney and drag it out in litigation. Simply have the attorney send a letter on your behalf, making the condo association aware you have representation and plan to take them to court if they don't dismiss the fine. The letter should also indicate you will be suing the condo board for defamation and harassment. Once you have the attorney send the letter, you should direct all further contact directly to your attorney, and not discuss further with the condo board. Unfortunately, this is the only thing they listen to.
They will never fine you again for anything.
This is the sort of unknowing inexperienced advice that the previous poster warned about. Though a grain of salt might be too little. There is no defamation, nor harrassment WHATSOEVER!
First, you need to review the By-Laws, as well as any amendments to determine what is allowed by the administrator.
Second, you do not need an attorney, but it may be prudent to consult with a real estate litigator regarding the issue, specificallly if the by-laws prove unclear. Also, as an added measure of effect, you can have the atty draft and send a letter advising of your position on the issue and that you refuse any responsibility and any fines thereof. Of course you could draft the letter yourself and have the atty review it to be sent under your own letterhead.
Third, re the late fees, I do not believe that 'late fees' are legally apppropriate in this circumstance. Meaning the law does not allow for such. In many similar instances LL will feign such fees, full well knowing they are not so entitled, but do so in attempt to intimidate the naive. An atty with all the facts at hand can adivse more fully.
In any event, ignoring the issue, for the moment, may be best. In other words, if the administrator/board is serious, then they will either take you to small claims court, in which case they will have to present 'proof', and you can handle it yourself w/o an atty.
Or, they will commence an eviction proceeding for non-payment. In which case, it w/b most prudent to consult an atty, as advised above.
Proof, from the facts in your post, will be testimony of the alleged eye witness. Your housekeeper will have to testify and deny the allegation. Word against word. You may need to do a little detective work. For example, if the incident occurred at Noon, then perhaps the witness in question was in another part of the building where he could not have observed the trash room.
In my experience, what often happens is nothing. The board is often too cheap and/or lazy to find an atty and/or pay the atty fees. Life goes on with no resolution. The issue often resurfacing when the apt is for sale and the board then insists upon the payment of the outstanding fine(s).
Ok, thanks for the advise. Any advise on an attorney to hire in NYC? I've never done suhc a thing. I assume the cost of the attorney will be higher than the fine so that's why the Condo board abuses people like this. People usually never hire an attorney to fight a $250 fine.
Most of the high end cases I've been involved with re coop/condo boards have been of a similar nature. Meaning of generally minor actual issues which devolve into matters of principle. In truly high end buildings, the principals involved have deep pockets and the money and costs involved are irrelevant.
Depending upon the atty involved, $250-500, for review and letter. If you go all the way to L&T court trial, then a $1500 retainer w/b within the norm.
Btw, again re Sobro's advice, you have no 'grounds' to bring suit against anyone. Other than the 'letter' you'll have to wait and react.
You can call the New York County Bar Association which has a service to determine your needs and reccommend attys specialized to your case.
Question 1:
Do you believe your housekeeper or do you believe the staff member?
Question 2:
Except for following JC'a advice and doing nothing. all alternatives to paying the $250/300 will cost you a good deal more than $250/300 and consume a lot of your time and energy/
I think the likely two answers point to your paying the fine and being done with it. If it were YOU they were accusing of trash mafeasance and you KNEW you were innocent then perhaps the U.S. Supreme Court might be a worthy ultimate arbiter.
But otherwise cut your losses.
(And I'll bet your housekeeper doesn't do it again. <wink>)
I work in a luxury condo as a doorman and porter . To the rules and regulations of the building , all garbage should be handle by the super ,or porter.plus the recycle .you're building administration is responsible to had the clean up . And if the case that you're housekeeper left or not left garbage at the garbage room they still responsible. Recall on their maintenance team to see what are they doing? Maybe they are not doing their job .
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and you KNEW you were innocent then perhaps the U.S. Supreme Court might be a worthy ultimate arbiter. 
