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They spend 50% or more of their earnings on rent or live multiple people to a room.
I know of it firsthand.
If you're willing to pay most of your earnings for rent, then making even 30k is enough.
I always thought that was true for Soho, the village, tribeca etc. I know a lot of students of all types, interns, temporary transplants etc do it as something fashionable, but I never got that vibe about it for mid town. Alot of the homes above 42nd street don't look like the types to take multiple renters into one place.
Also, from my experience, a lot of buildings have income requirements adjusted with the rent, so they don't allow someone below a certain bracket to spend more than a certain percent of their income on rent. I know my building required 35k per year income and you had to prove it.
I always thought that was true for Soho, the village, tribeca etc. I know a lot of students of all types, interns, temporary transplants etc do it as something fashionable, but I never got that vibe about it for mid town. Alot of the homes above 42nd street don't look like the types to take multiple renters into one place.
Also, from my experience, a lot of buildings have income requirements adjusted with the rent, so they don't allow someone below a certain bracket to spend more than a certain percent of their income on rent. I know my building required 35k per year income and you had to prove it.
I have a few friends living in Midtown.
Two of them share a 1 BD "flex". Rent is 3k. One makes about 55k so his share of rent is 50% of income after tax. The other makes 65k, so his share is 38% after income. They're not exactly living pay check to pay check but paying so much in rent is irrational.
The other pays 1600 and and his share of rent is about 53% of after tax income.
There are many, many more like them all over NYC.
The 40x rule isn't enforced city wide and when it is it takes into account pre tax income. Pre tax income in NYC is an illusion. Especially for single people.
Good luck. It's not going to be as easy as you think.
Almost all of the cities that have the qualities you would probably want(amenities,NO NEED FOR A CAR,shops restaurants,dept stores,bars,etc within walking distance,a viable mass transit system,good econmomy,etc (i.e.,truly dynamic urban environments) are either already more expensive or only slightly less expensive than NYC and are experiencing the same phenomenon of rapidly escalating rents.Boston,SF,DC,Chicago,etc rents are going through the roof.
Most of the cities in the US either have no urban core left,no mass transit,economies much worse than NY's or all or some combination of the above.
In essence,any city you would want to live in is expensive.In the few that you might want to live in that aren't too expensive, you will definitely need a car.
I certainly agree that "no need for a car" is the biggest stumbling block. But I think there are greater possibilities than Boston,SF,DC,Chicago; I'm looking at smaller to medium sized cities with a nice (or at least decent) downtown, the problem is whether there is housing downtown. Sometimes there is, sometimes there is not, or there will be places to buy but few rentals. And as I said it depends on what one is looking for, for example, I am more looking for a place to retire to than looking for work. Based on my initial research I would say that I am pretty optimistic that I will find the right place and save a significant amount of money.
I remember when I lived in Minneapolis in the 1990s how much cheaper the rents were! And it is a great place to live if you can abide the winters. At the time
I needed a car for work, but now think I could live without a car in the Uptown area...but don't think I could take those winters anymore.
^ Yeah if they're using pre tax income, I could see that happening. It's definately an illusion.
My GF and I are in the similar bracket of your friends and we happened to come across a few homes advertised on the window of a real estate agency and we just could not grasp how people could pay those prices. Even stranger are the real estate agents who say that they can't hold onto them long enough. They advertise these properties and they say that they are literally gone in a few days if not the same day.
Are rents going up in other areas as well, or just Manhattan?
Pretty much everywhere in the city, but not as much as it has in Manhattan. Brooklyn got super expensive too, I was looking on craigslist and saw apartments in Williamsburg and Greenpoint that were $5000 a month.
Another problem is that NYC rents are considered a " steal" to rich Europeans,rich South Americans,rich Asians and the rich from around the world.A lot of apartments in Manhattan are empty most of the time.There are also hordes of rich Americans who "reside " in other places in the US but they keep a pied a terre in NY. The apartments are just there for occasional use by the tenants and that kind of occupancy keeps all the rents up.
Another problem is that NYC rents are considered a " steal" to rich Europeans,rich South Americans,rich Asians and the rich from around the world.A lot of apartments in Manhattan are empty most of the time.There are also hordes of rich Americans who "reside " in other places in the US but they keep a pied a terre in NY. The apartments are just there for occasional use by the tenants and that kind of occupancy keeps all the rents up.
How do the buildings with empty apts break even?? The majority of them don't even lower the rent. These new luxury/modern developments are going to drive the middle class out of NYC.
I certainly agree that "no need for a car" is the biggest stumbling block. But I think there are greater possibilities than Boston,SF,DC,Chicago; I'm looking at smaller to medium sized cities with a nice (or at least decent) downtown, the problem is whether there is housing downtown. Sometimes there is, sometimes there is not, or there will be places to buy but few rentals. And as I said it depends on what one is looking for, for example, I am more looking for a place to retire to than looking for work. Based on my initial research I would say that I am pretty optimistic that I will find the right place and save a significant amount of money.
I remember when I lived in Minneapolis in the 1990s how much cheaper the rents were! And it is a great place to live if you can abide the winters. At the time
I needed a car for work, but now think I could live without a car in the Uptown area...but don't think I could take those winters anymore.
Funny, I was reading your post and thinking "Uptown in Minneapolis is the perfect example of a mid-size city neighborhood livable without a car, and for WAY cheaper rent than NYC (or DC, SF, etc.)!" Lots of former New Yorkers floating around in Uptown, too. That said, we chose to move to New York, and decided to go with a Manhattan location because my husband wanted to walk to work. We pay a premium to do it, though, and the rent for a small basic place costs more than a mortgage on a nice Uptown house or duplex (and at least two-three times more than what we'd pay in rent for a comparable apartment). My husband's salary is higher here than what he could get in Minneapolis, but even after you factor that in we're still paying a huge premium to live in Manhattan (or plenty of other NYC locations, for that matter). For now it's worth it (maybe not if we looked at it purely as a financially, at least in the short-term, but worth for the total package), but I have no idea what we'll do if it comes closer to retirement time.
If you're looking for walkable, cheaper, livable without a car, and without severe winters, some of the California cities may be worth checking out.
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