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My apprehension would go away if I were sufficiently convinced that it was safe, however. Is it pretty much the same as anywhere else in Manhattan (people keeping to themselves, an occasional homeless person asking for change, occasional crazy person you can just walk around without incident, etc)?
Yes that is basically it, what you described is accurate. This area of Harlem was the earliest to mix racially in the 90's, before the condos were built. There were alot of vacant lots around to build the condos on.
Economically it is very diverse. Not every White or Asian person is a gentrifier many are working people that just happen to live in the area. If you feel safe you should enjoy it over there.
That's a safe area. You shouldn't have any problems, as long as you exercise normal precautions as in any urban area (like don't walk around with headphones in the middle of night).
I lived near Morningside Park 10 years ago, and it was safe back then. There has been tons of gentrification in this area in the last 10 years, so I imagine it would be even safer now.
A lot of this area, BTW, has been yuppie-ized so much it feels like the Upper West Side. The brownstone side streets are quite nice, and 8th Ave is fully gentrified, with new condos, restaurants, and the like.
Harlem hasn't been "bad" since the mid-90's or so, and, in any case, the worst parts were never really around Morningside Park.
Assuming you mean east of Morningside Park. Otherwise, why ask.
The above comments are not at all accurate. Many parts of Harlem remain "bad." Historically, the worst parts WERE around Morningside Park, a tragedy because there are so many nice buildings and others with real potential.
Keep in mind that "tons of gentrification" - especially from an armchair view - depends on what was there before. FDB is far from "fully gentrified," and generally speaking, the area is far from "yuppie-ized."
There is an entrenched culture that remains, thus far, in place. This culture specializes in quality-of-life compromise and they have plenty of time on their hands to bring this about. The dirt biker riders are a problem. In the summer, the barbecue folk are a problem, especially if you are living directly off the park. The litter and garbage everywhere gets tired, as do the unsupervised adolescents who sometimes shoot at each other and quite often simply harass people. There have been several robbery attacks on people recently and do not bother to search the papers for stories. Development interests are far too strong to allow anything resembling the truth to come out. The attacks were serious.
That said, on Morningside, below 116th is much better. It is most definitely NOT the UWS, but it is better than most areas above. Prices will reflect this. Choose blocks east of FDB with great caution. They really do vary, with safety depending on the number of people who wander over from the fun on ACP and Lenox.
Advice: research whatever building thoroughly, housing court, HPD site, bedbug registry. Find out whether the buildings adjacent are social-service housing. If a building is managed by ECDO or West Harlem, that's what it is. There are others.
Another clue - is there an affidavit program announcement in front of the building ? This means that drug selling has been a problem. For some reason, few people understand this. I myself needed my SO, a Harlem native, to explain it to me.
There will now be responses from the I-am-not-a-racist-!!!! PC-types, proclaiming that they LOVE Harlem and LOVE black people. Perhaps they will at least live here. Perhaps not. Hey, help yourself.
my apprehension would go away if i were sufficiently convinced that it was safe, however. Is it pretty much the same as anywhere else in manhattan (people keeping to themselves, an occasional homeless person asking for change, occasional crazy person you can just walk around without incident, etc)?
Doesn't matter how safe it is "objectively." If you're afraid of the neighborhood where you live, or even if you just feel very out of place, you will be unhappy. That's no way to live.
What might you say is a more accurate view on average?
Define accurate.
People can and do tolerate all kinds of things.
It is probably significant that most people moving to Harlem are transplants.
West is a different story. This is an area that has changed and will change far more, and tremendously.
Define accurate.
People can and do tolerate all kinds of things.
It is probably significant that most people moving to Harlem are transplants.
West is a different story. This is an area that has changed and will change far more, and tremendously.
You had mentioned that my earlier assessment was incorrect (see post #13) -- I'm just asking why so.
From 115th - 120th it is best not to live on Mahattan Ave or on 8th Ave. Manhattan Ave is residential with one side of the street all brownstone for the most part, and the other side apt. buildings. There is a lot of activity on the apt building side of the street. FDB is more commercial and noisy.
The numbered streets between Morningside Park and FDB are better. But no matter will not stand out for being White or Asian.
The other Manhattan areas you mentioned have the same pros and cons. Have you checked out Hudson Heights. Which is Washington Heights west of Broadway?
You had mentioned that my earlier assessment was incorrect (see post #13) -- I'm just asking why so.
Harlem Resident will post all of the negative of Harlem, I'll post more of the positive. I think Harlem resident exaggerates a little but we are both telling the truth. So my advice is to take both opinions into consideration and you will have an accurate assessment.
Again check out Hudson Heights it seems to be more of what you are looking for.
Last edited by DAS; 10-05-2013 at 11:34 AM..
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