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Yes, Nywriterdude, I know you would rather leave those who you deem unworthy or trash behind, but you know what, some people care because they understand that nobody is truly an island. As far as I'm concerned, it would be disgusting for me to think that because I'm smart, I'm too special to not offer any help or service that I can to those less fortunate than myself. I know you don't care, but I want to future generations of Black & Hispanics doing well academically, so it decreases the chance of them becoming another statistic.
As far as I read, nobody in this thread is disagreeing with personal responsibility, they're just stating that having a group of people to back each other up and give support goes much further than people who try to things by themselves.
The trash had nothing to do with my life, so I owe them nothing. Anyone who is successful at anything in their lives ever did not get there because of trash.
And you can't make future generations of Blacks and Hispanics do well academically. That decision and ability has to come within the individual. There will always be bad decisions and choices, and some people regardless of race will always take them. In short, some people are stupid.
Clearly if Egypt was mixed at some point there had to have been some blacks. No Ancient Egypt was not a "black" civilization though Khush/Nubia was, but there were blacks in ancient Egypt, alongside others.
I have a passport ready if need be, and you do not need a visa to leave the US.
You forgot one thing though. You do need some sort of visa to LIVE in another country. Suppose they don't want you? They have no obligation towards you, just as you don't have towards others.
Most of the major Black artists popular overseas are at least someone pop oriented. Beyonce, Rihanna, Farrell Williams, etc.
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Except that many nations have their own hip hop now, so it really doesn't matter what American rappers are up to. The hip hop genre is now a global force. Certainly more than country music, which has limited markets outside of North America.
Except that many nations have their own hip hop now, so it really doesn't matter what American rappers are up to. The hip hop genre is now a global force. Certainly more than country music, which has limited markets outside of North America.
Hip hop can be huge in the Caribbean, but Caribbean artists don't sell. Much of the entertainment distributed globally unfortunately is American/European, and unless you're Beyonce or Jay Z, the attitude of the industry is generally white people are more marketable.
One of the biggest issues that corporations have is being able to import talent from Asia and Eastern Europe. Suppose that source dries up because those people can live well at home? Suppose those people become quite innovative and we lag because we don't have enough talent. South Korea has MORE engineers than the USA, even though they export and we IMPORT engineers.
While the demise of the USA mightn't come tomorrow it will come one day if we cant produce our own talent and rely on stealing others.
And yes civilizations go through cycles. Just look at Italy and Greece. Or even the UK. Shadows of their former selves. Do you think that the USA is immune? If it falls why do you think it might happen?
I don't dispute your logic; just saying I have not seen it happen esp. in America.
You mentioned Italy (Western Roman Empire?) and Greece. The decline of either had little to do with inability to produce talent and more to do with a litany of other factors. The Greek regions actually remained prosperous until the 13th century - a remarkable run for a civilization. Constantinople itself remained an economic and cultural power until the 17th century.
The UK may be a shadow of its former self but London is wealthier than ever.
Why does NYC continue to attract talent despite other countries producing more STEM graduates? Simple - a lot of these other countries (especially China and Central Asia) subsidize industries with high barriers to entry. It's hard for groups of individuals to contrive startups and small businesses and create a path to upward mobility for themselves. If anything, these countries are more similar to Detroit and Chatanooga than NYC.
In NYC, wall st. begot hedge funds and boutique firms and now you are seeing startups in media, advertising and tech. It's still hard to do that in Chinese cities and definitely hard to do it from American suburbs.
Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 03-18-2014 at 05:18 AM..
You forgot one thing though. You do need some sort of visa to LIVE in another country. Suppose they don't want you? They have no obligation towards you, just as you don't have towards others.
It's pretty easy to get a job teaching English overseas and it's pretty easy for me to get an artist visa. I have a degree from an university from an English speaking country, so in exchange for teaching English I can easily get visas in Asia, the Middle East, and Latin America. I know this process well.
And anyone who employs me or grants me a visa is not doing out of some ridiculous obligation to the "race", they are doing it for various skills I have and various service I offer. If I were to go that route, I'd be doing it for the experience and the pay. Again, no racial considerations would be considered.
Truthfully, Black African (as well as places like Haiti) countries where English isn't the official language are so poor and broke I'd never dream of going. Any teachers they get from Western countries are volunteers.
I've also worked in various creative and NGO capacities, and I have my contacts there and can get visas that way.
Basically, rational self interest means you do things that benefit YOU. Not the race/collective/community.
You're projecting your own issues on to me. You're a working class Caribbean immigrant in a poor neighborhood in NYC, that's the prospective you know. But you and I are very different people, with very different interests. You seem to think I need to identify with all you identify. I don't. That's just that.
You are aware that a sign of being an adult is the realization that different people do different things? Just because you feel a certain way, doesn't mean everyone feels I certain way? Just because you have a conception of Black people, doesn't mean all Black people feel the same way?
And anyone is ridiculously naive and is displaying a complete lack of intelligence to think all people of the same color like, understand, or appreciate each other.
There really is no point is trying to create straw arguments in order to try to push your interests/concerns on other people. I recall you coming up with wild scenarios about how terrible it would be if de Blasio drove wealthy people out of NYC. I said I didn't care as that wasn't my issue. At that point I already had my airplane ticket ready (not because of De Blasio). Since I live elsewhere if NYC does go down the tubes, well, it doesn't really effect me. You're the one who for whatever reason has to stay. I can understand if you own a house or a small business in Wakefield that you might have certain fears. However, that's not my situation and those concerns won't affect me. You should realize different people will be impacted by different things, and that we have different SELF INTERESTS.
Last edited by NyWriterdude; 03-18-2014 at 05:45 AM..
I don't dispute your logic; just saying I have not seen it happen esp. in America.
You mentioned Italy (Western Roman Empire?) and Greece. The decline of either had little to do with inability to produce talent and more to do with a litany of other factors. The Greek regions actually remained prosperous until the 13th century - a remarkable run for a civilization. Constantinople itself remained an economic and cultural power until the 17th century.
The UK may be a shadow of its former self but London is wealthier than ever.
Why does NYC continue to attract talent despite other countries producing more STEM graduates? Simple - a lot of these other countries (especially China and Central Asia) subsidize industries with high barriers to entry. It's hard for groups of individuals to contrive startups and small businesses and create a path to upward mobility for themselves. If anything, these countries are more similar to Detroit and Chatanooga than NYC.
In NYC, wall st. begot hedge funds and boutique firms and now you are seeing startups in media, advertising and tech. It's still hard to do that in Chinese cities and definitely hard to do it from American suburbs.
In short, the business of America is business. Alibaba, the Chinese web commerce company, is doing its IPO in New York, not Hong Kong.
The US exports much more in the way of media products than China (Film, Tv, Major Websites/Social Media used globally, music, animation, etc.) From it's inception the US tech industry has always imported talent from around the world. I'd say Apple and Google with their huge cash hoards of hundreds of billions of dollars are doing just fine. I'd say Cisco, Intel, and HP, though they are being forced to deal with changing markets are doing comparatively fine. And before the computer industry existed, US universities and industry imported major talent from around the world.
US companies actually don't need to increase the number of STEM graduates as they use the entire world as their recruiting base. US universities also accept people around the world for all their programs. Considering the billions top US universities have in their endowments, I'd say things are going just fine.
I don't think they use cutoffs anymore. The kids with the highest scores get to choose where they want to go, and you work down the list that way.
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