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i agree, there are some beautiful suburban neighborhoods in northern bronx, ie country club, city island, pelham bay, and beaches that people in the rest of the boroughs have no concept of.
Not sure how you got to the suburbs from Northwest/central Bronx lol. It's urban and beautiful (potentially more-so) in the area where Norwood starts and around Bedford Park, with very good transit options, amazing architecture and a ridiculous amount of green space for such an urbanized area of the city. That's why we're moving there, plus many of the other reasons already described in this thread. I'm looking forward to seeing the Bronx move forward and take its rightful place in NYC legend and culture.
Do you think the day will ever come where the Bronx will be the in-place (the happening place to live in and hang out in) for the so-called "beautiful people" of this world...
Its hard to predict the future, but one thing I'll say is that the Bronx (excluding some wealthy outposts like Riverdale) has always been a middle and working class place. Even before the current latino population, the europeans living here were mostly blue collar working class people with the top strata being the jewish doctors and lawyers on the grand concourse.
I would call the Bronx the "borough of dreams" as its a place where normal people live and look off to Manhattan and all its possibilities for the future. "Maybe one day I'll get there" kind of thing. You can see this theme if you read stories or watch movies which take place in the Bronx.
So history doesn't have a precedent for the BX being the rich man's playground like other parts of the city but of course NYC always changes so who knows what the future will bring. The place still has "that reputation." The faces I get from new yorkers when I tell them I live in the Bronx is just priceless.
Just about everyone looking at the BX is doing so first because they want to find something affordable. There are still plenty of apartments in Manhattan and west brooklyn for the rich kids and their trust funds. Rents in the BX are already rising and will continue to do so, but I think at least right now thats because more middle class people are taking the chance, not rich gentrifiers. I've met many people with the same story. They used to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn and got priced out so now they are looking here.
I really hope it doesn't completely gentrify like Brooklyn and Manhattan because I can't stand that pretensious crowd. Not that everyone there is bad, but the general scene I don't appreciate. I like walking down the street and seeing normal working people as my neighbors. I like the level of realness, pragmatism, and toughness you take in from being a part of a hard working community. There are of course ghetto trash in some parts but predominately its hard working families just trying to make it.
I see why so many people hate on hipsters because there is something repulsive about these adults with their childish softness and shelteredness that comes off immediately just by the way they carry themselves, talk, and dress. It feels like a lot of fake attention seeking and utter lack of wisdom about the realities of life. Real artists are dedicated to their craft. They don't need to wear a costume to show everyone how unique and original they are.
A few weeks ago I went to a salsa event at the Port Morris distillery. There was a very diverse crowd there. Local latinos, a group of old timer puerto rican bikers, and young whites who are probably newcomers to the neighborhood. Everyone was friendly, full of smiles, and having a great time enjoying the music and dancing. Give me this crowd anyday over a group of self important, pretensious, costume wearing, wealthy 30 year old fake intellectual children from Ohio.
Last edited by fmatthew5876; 09-14-2015 at 12:31 PM..
Its hard to predict the future, but one thing I'll say is that the Bronx (excluding some wealthy outposts like Riverdale) has always been a middle and working class place. Even before the current latino population, the europeans living here were mostly blue collar working class people with the top strata being the jewish doctors and lawyers on the grand concourse.
I would call the Bronx the "borough of dreams" as its a place where normal people live and look off to Manhattan and all its possibilities for the future. "Maybe one day I'll get there" kind of thing. You can see this theme if you read stories or watch movies which take place in the Bronx.
So history doesn't have a precedent for the BX being the rich man's playground like other parts of the city but of course NYC always changes so who knows what the future will bring. The place still has "that reputation." The faces I get from new yorkers when I tell them I live in the Bronx is just priceless.
Just about everyone looking at the BX is doing so first because they want to find something affordable. There are still plenty of apartments in Manhattan and west brooklyn for the rich kids and their trust funds. Rents in the BX are already rising and will continue to do so, but I think at least right now thats because more middle class people are taking the chance, not rich gentrifiers. I've met many people with the same story. They used to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn and got priced out so now they are looking here.
I really hope it doesn't completely gentrify like Brooklyn and Manhattan because I can't stand that pretensious crowd. Not that everyone there is bad, but the general scene I don't appreciate. I like walking down the street and seeing normal working people as my neighbors. I like the level of realness, pragmatism, and toughness you take in from being a part of a hard working community. There are of course ghetto trash in some parts but predominately its hard working families just trying to make it.
I see why so many people hate on hipsters because there is something repulsive about these adults with their childish softness and shelteredness that comes off immediately just by the way they carry themselves, talk, and dress. It feels like a lot of fake attention seeking and utter lack of wisdom about the realities of life. Real artists are dedicated to their craft. They don't need to wear a costume to show everyone how unique and original they are.
A few weeks ago I went to a salsa event at the Port Morris distillery. There was a very diverse crowd there. Local latinos, a group of old timer puerto rican bikers, and young whites who are probably newcomers to the neighborhood. Everyone was friendly, full of smiles, and having a great time enjoying the music and dancing. Give me this crowd anyday over a group of self important, pretensious, costume wearing, wealthy 30 year old fake intellectual children from Ohio.
Working class people aren't really that tough and what you said is just a defense mechanism you've thrown up or erected.
In fact if working class people were tough, we'd have a very different city. Most working class jobs outside of union jobs one can be fired for any time for any reason. No job stability. Being that many working class jobs have no benefits, it's off to the welfare office in old age.
The white working class largely left NYC and so much of the wrong is done by immigrants. Partially because life in NYC for a working class person can be pretty grim. The nice parts of town are likely too expensive so it's either move into the ghetto or move in with illegal immigrants. Ghettos aren't just bad because of crime. You have busted up buildings, poor heating, rats and roaches, and an number of other serious issues that affect one's quality of life. No one really wants to live there and if any of these people had their dream come true (if only winning the lottery) they'd bail out immediately.
And if you hate well off people you can certainly move to a city where no well to do people live. Detroit. Crime there is through the rough and city services are non existent as it takes well off people to pay the taxes that actually RUN a city. All these businesses and rich people pay taxes that subsidize the city services you use, including the subways.
Come to think of it, how many poor people in the Bronx have been killed by each other, killed by COPS, died from neglected medical conditions, have commited suicide via excessive alcohol and/or drug consumption,etc? The toughness of the inner city crowd is absolute bull****.
Someone like Trump elected as President could go Nazi and do ghetto liquidation (extermination). This is a very scary and nightmarish thought.
Do you think the day will ever come where the Bronx will be the in-place (the happening place to live in and hang out in) for the so-called "beautiful people" of this world (i.e., the high-end celebrities, the jet-setters, the Hollywood stars, the movers and shakers of society or at least those always in the media spotlight, the Wall Street big bankers and hedge fund managers, et al) whereby they would choose to make The Bronx their primary home base?
Like who? Oh, I don't know. Perhaps people like or analogous to: Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, Julie Roberts, the Kardashians, Leonardo DiCaprio, Meryl Streep, Jennifer Lawrence, Tom Brokaw, Taylor Swift, Donald Trump, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. . . . ad infinitum. Or even Wall Street bankers and hedge fund managers and the like. I think you get the picture. In other words, with all the wealth and resources at such persons' avail and hence all the options at their avail, do you think such persons could ever (in the future) bypass every other grographic locale and choose to make The Bronx their primary home base?
Or will the Bronx always be a place that, even if business and investment increases there notably (as this very thread reports) and more and more middle class populations move in, will it ever be a place that has the cachet to appeal to the true upper-class element (beyond Riverdale - Fieldston. . . which seems to try to function and be perceived as an island unto itself and is wholly atypical of The Bronx-at-large)? Will the Bronx only ever appeal, at best, to those who are lower than the upper classes (the low-end classes, the middle class, and some of the upper middle class but not populated beyond a smidgeon by the true upper classes . . . beyond some choosing to live in Riverdale - Fieldston)?
south bronx doesn't market itself, never did. it was a relocation point during the original white flight of the early 1900's out of the ghettos of brooklyn and lower manhattan, primarily by the upwardly mobile middle class until it degraded to it's own ghetto demographics during the deflationary 60's and 70's.. the cycle is once again changing past 10 years. i foresee a similar migration next 10 years, but this time, the established 10 year professional in his 30's, or middle management type with a newborn who wants more space for less while keeping a 15-20 minute subway commute to his office in midtown, or the older bartender hipster rejecting hipster and artists currently being priced out of their current digs down south at greenpoint or astoria, which would be a different demographic to the brand seeking college grad who would gravitate to brooklyn or lower manhattan, LES, and gladly overpay for a small closet of an apt, etc.
LES and NW brooklyn on a weekend is now ex-frat/sorority central.. they're the bagholders, the ones late to the game and their mommies and daddies are fueling the rent rises there so their penn state grad kids can experience the media driven hype. after 10 years of no savings or leeching off their trust funds and parents, these marginal "new yorkers" will typically leave to go back to wabash indiana and buckeye nation.. the ones who remain typically go up north to queens, harlem and now, the bronx is an option.
south bronx is big, it's almost 40 sq blocks. there will be complete white gentrification in some areas as harlem is doing now, and others remaining the way it's been, with new neighborhoods defined along the way there's nothing glamorous about it, but that's the charm of the bronx. real true to life nyc living.. and doubt celebrities will define it. this doesn't mean that bronx RE prices won't skyrocket. even chinatown and the surrounding ghetto projects inflated 1000% in 2 decades.
in 10 years, once the major networks hook up with the nyc real estate mafia and script brand new sitcom shows about the bronx, you'll get that quick snowball gentrification of young kids again. that's when the RE mafia will be unloading their inventory to the sheeple at steep prices as they are now doing in lower manhattan and brooklyn
Last edited by ControlJohnsons; 09-14-2015 at 03:25 PM..
south bronx doesn't market itself, never did. it was a relocation point during the original white flight of the early 1900's out of the ghettos of brooklyn and lower manhattan, primarily by the upwardly mobile middle class until it degraded to it's own ghetto demographics during the deflationary 60's and 70's.. the cycle is once again changing past 10 years. i foresee a similar migration next 10 years, but this time, the established 10 year professional in his 30's, or middle management type with a newborn who wants more space for less while keeping a 15-20 minute subway commute to his office in midtown, or the older bartender hipster rejecting hipster and artists currently being priced out of their current digs down south at greenpoint or astoria, which would be a different demographic to the brand seeking college grad who would gravitate to brooklyn or lower manhattan, LES, and gladly overpay for a small closet of an apt, etc.
LES and NW brooklyn on a weekend is now ex-frat/sorority central.. they're the bagholders, the ones late to the game and their mommies and daddies are fueling the rent rises there so their penn state grad kids can experience the media driven hype. after 10 years of no savings or leeching off their trust funds and parents, these marginal "new yorkers" will typically leave to go back to wabash indiana and buckeye nation.. the ones who remain typically go up north to queens, harlem and now, the bronx is an option.
south bronx is big, it's almost 40 sq blocks. there will be complete white gentrification in some areas as harlem is doing now, and others remaining the way it's been, with new neighborhoods defined along the way there's nothing glamorous about it, but that's the charm of the bronx. real true to life nyc living.. and doubt celebrities will define it. this doesn't mean that bronx RE prices won't skyrocket. even chinatown and the surrounding ghetto projects inflated 1000% in 2 decades.
in 10 years, once the major networks hook up with the nyc real estate mafia and script brand new sitcom shows about the bronx, you'll get that quick snowball gentrification of young kids again. that's when the RE mafia will be unloading their inventory to the sheeple at steep prices as they are now doing in lower manhattan and brooklyn
White trust fund kids are not marginal New Yorkers. NYC revolves around them. The white working class fled, even a number of Working class Blacks fled so what is left is well off whites, an immigrant working class, those with union jobs, and those with government subsidies.
White trust fund kids are not marginal New Yorkers. NYC revolves around them. The white working class fled, even a number of Working class Blacks fled so what is left is well off whites, an immigrant working class, those with union jobs, and those with government subsidies.
u missed my point, eventually the tourist midwest transplant white kids financed by middle class mommy and daddy will pay up and buy bronx when the smart money is selling.
nyc brings in waves of middle american white kids every 4 years like college does.. and the vast majority leave within 10 years, jaded and dumbfounded. it's a tourist business, the old tourists are replaced with temporal new ones. the real new yorkers just chug along.
u missed my point, eventually the tourist midwest transplant white kids financed by middle class mommy and daddy will pay up and buy bronx when the smart money is selling.
nyc brings in waves of middle american white kids every 4 years like college does.. and the vast majority leave within 10 years, jaded and dumbfounded. it's a tourist business, the old tourists are replaced with temporal new ones. the real new yorkers just chug along.
Who are the real New Yorkers?
The housing project and social services crowd, dependent upon programs financed by the federal government?
Rich white New Yorkers are indistinguishable from the Midwestern white kids you hate. They go to the same universities, have the same social services and they can all AFFORD to live where they want to. This is something denied to working class and poor New Yorkers of color who increasingly will have to live in the Bronx or the poor parts of Brooklyn.
For any well paying job in the private sector in NYC, employers would by far prefer to hire WHITE KIDS (whether New Yorker or Midwestern or European) that NYC born non whites. For those that choose to stay in NYC they definitely can make it and they will do well. Do not delude yourself. The city and the nation revolves around them. There is no NYC privilege but there is certainly white privilege.
I have known many educated white transplants and immigrants who moved to NYC and who establish themselves here.
Meanwhile what you call real New Yorkers can only dream of living in or even NEAR Manhattan.
White trust fund kids are not marginal New Yorkers. NYC revolves around them. The white working class fled, even a number of Working class Blacks fled so what is left is well off whites, an immigrant working class, those with union jobs, and those with government subsidies.
NYC revolves around everyone and not only amongst transplants and those with the greatest, latest degrees from an IVY. Don't get me wrong transplants and so on take NYC for granted, far more than I do. Why? Because I have seen it all here in NYC, but that does not give me a reason why I don't or I should not take NYC for granted, while still living in NYC. I should still experience and create outings that makes NYC exciting even though it does not excite me as much. NYC revolves around everyone but it revolves around everyone in different ways or capacity. But yes transplants and so on take NYC for granted so therefore the city revolves around them in their presumptions whimsical mindset.
There are still white working class in Southeast Bronx, South Brooklyn and in Staten Island. And tons of working class blacks who work in certain service jobs that live in NYC. Its the middle class that are leaving in droves either to somewhere in the Mohawk valley, or across the river in jersey, down south in Carolinas or Florida, or out west in Arizona or Texas. But slowly and surely the working class are already moving out of the city in droves. What keeps NYC population afloat? High rates of out of wedlock births, people living longer, immigration, cities population also spikes after May when tens of thousands of suburban kids move to NYC after college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ControlJohnsons
u missed my point, eventually the tourist midwest transplant white kids financed by middle class mommy and daddy will pay up and buy bronx when the smart money is selling.
nyc brings in waves of middle american white kids every 4 years like college does.. and the vast majority leave within 10 years, jaded and dumbfounded. it's a tourist business, the old tourists are replaced with temporal new ones. the real new yorkers just chug along.
I love visiting white suburbia and I see lots of potential in these areas, sadly those who grew up in these dwellings don't see providence in suburbia. There is nothing in the suburbs for white kids or who ever after finishing college. Suburban kids have to move to big cities for oppurtunities which the suburbs does not really live or have but in a limited capacitiy. See now more than ever suburban kids are moving to DC, San Francsico, NYC, Chicago, Boston and so on to carve out a career or name for themselves. However its still a wait and see game if these urban types are going to stay in the city forever or move back to suburbia. So far only native city folks are moving to the suburbs at the moment.
NYC revolves around everyone and not only amongst transplants and those with the greatest, latest degrees from an IVY. Don't get me wrong transplants and so on take NYC for granted, far more than I do. Why? Because I have seen it all here in NYC, but that does not give me a reason why I don't or I should not take NYC for granted, while still living in NYC. I should still experience and create outings that makes NYC exciting even though it does not excite me as much. NYC revolves around everyone but it revolves around everyone in different ways or capacity. But yes transplants and so on take NYC for granted so therefore the city revolves around them in their presumptions whimsical mindset.
There are still white working class in Southeast Bronx, South Brooklyn and in Staten Island. And tons of working class blacks who work in certain service jobs that live in NYC. Its the middle class that are leaving in droves either to somewhere in the Mohawk valley, or across the river in jersey, down south in Carolinas or Florida, or out west in Arizona or Texas. But slowly and surely the working class are already moving out of the city in droves. What keeps NYC population afloat? High rates of out of wedlock births, people living longer, immigration, cities population also spikes after May when tens of thousands of suburban kids move to NYC after college.
I love visiting white suburbia and I see lots of potential in these areas, sadly those who grew up in these dwellings don't see providence in suburbia. There is nothing in the suburbs for white kids or who ever after finishing college. Suburban kids have to move to big cities for oppurtunities which the suburbs does not really live or have but in a limited capacitiy. See now more than ever suburban kids are moving to DC, San Francsico, NYC, Chicago, Boston and so on to carve out a career or name for themselves. However its still a wait and see game if these urban types are going to stay in the city forever or move back to suburbia. So far only native city folks are moving to the suburbs at the moment.
Have you ever actually stopped to ask them why? For starters many suburbanites have always worked in the city. Professional and corporate jobs often entail long hours. Back in the 50s when upper middle class and middle class families commonly had housewives it was doable. Now with both the mother and father working long hours no one is going to be anywhere near the suburb to pick up the kids from school. It's a lifestyle that in today's world has become not as viable as it once was.
Also suburban style houses are big. Meaning it takes more effort to clean them and someone has to cut the lawn, rakes the leaves, etc. Not everyone wants to do these chores or depending on career path has time to do these chores. Of course you can always pay someone to do that but not everyone is interested in doing so.
Lastly suburban poverty does exists and it is rising as poor minorities get pushed further out of the inner city, as well do people these days prefer to live closer to work. (and no I am not claiming all minorities are poor or that all poor people are non white). Many formerly single family houses get converted to units that house multiple families. While there will always be wealthy suburbs, working class suburban areas have been declining. You have some nasty ghettoes in parts of Jersey, LI, and even the lower Hudson Valley including Westchester.
However I do understand why many working class minorities want to flee the city and do so when they can. Living in busted up buildings with rodents and bugs. With landlords to cheap to properly maintain the buildings or provide heat in some cases. Then some neighborhoods are dangerous. And let's face it there are beautiful suburban homes with beautiful yards, gardens, and trees. The neighborhood may be quiet. However if you are poor in NYC you will have a hard time moving into a good suburb. The suburbs they have access to are ghetto suburbs.
Overall I think the change in large numbers of whites wanting to be in big cities is permanent. Partially because of the now more prominent role of women in the workforce, the end of the suburban idea family (dad works good job, mom is housewife), and given the fact the government and large companies continue to invest large amounts of money in certain big cities. Also the US's big exports these days are media, tech, and entertainment (basically intellectual property). These things are produced in the biggest cities. Certain services and tourism tend to be drawn towards big cities as well.
I agree with you immigration is a huge factor in keeping the city's working class afloat, and on the other factors you mentioned as keeping the city's population afloat.
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