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It doesn't sound like a good idea. The NYC area (including commuting areas) is really expensive. Anywhere that has excellent schools AND a relatively easy and sub-1 hour commute to Manhattan are bound to be unaffordable on a 75K salary.
It also sounds like you would be miserable living here.
If you don't accept the transfer, do you automatically get terminated?
Asking you to move from Indiana to NYC requires a Cost of Living Adjustment.
Not providing that is a definately reduction in most if not all of your requirements, and then on top of that having to deal with the stress of a new enviroment. Is it possible to get the scenario you are in living in right now, near NYC? Yes. Westercher, Jersey, Long Island. But the cost of those areas are certainly not comparable to what you have right now, and on top of that you will be commuting longer. There is no getting around that unless you have a serious amount of cash and even then you will not have the amount of land you are used to.
If they gave you a comperable salary or siginificant bump, I would say it is doable. Without any adjustment the proposal is just ridiculous and asking you to sacrafice so much for their benefit. I am leaning towards a recommendation of "No" if your company is not going to help with this move.
Thanks for the good insight. I would get pretty limited help with the move, basically they will ship my stuff for me, I have to do everything else. The $75k salary already included the COL adjustment, unbelievably it is only about $6k/year more. Really leaving towards declining at this point.
I'm wondering if the company is trying to get him to quit for some reason. The whole situation is so unreasonable. This isn't my area of expertise, but aren't there relocation consultants that companies hire for this type of thing? Any specialist would advise the company about the higher cost of living in NYC. (And, as previous posters have already pointed out, it's simple to get the cost of living for any city online and just do the comparison.)
It seems to me that a generous (or at least realistic) housing allowance is called for. Why are these things not being offered? Something isn't adding up.
And the only choice is to transfer or quit? That doesn't sound kosher either.
No, they barely know me, I'm fairly new. I'm just one of several they are transferring there, but most people accept it because they are single and think NYC is cool. Within a few years they will get raises and be fine. I am just having a hard time with it because I have to drag my family along.
It definitely doesn't add up, no argument here, but that goes with the territory in some jobs. If enough people want the job, they can get away with treating people like crap.
It definitely doesn't add up, no argument here, but that goes with the territory in some jobs. If enough people want the job, they can get away with treating people like crap.
If the park is an issue, then I'd not suggest Riverdale in The Bronx. However, if you could deal with a block or two walk to a local park, then it would not be unfeasible to consider Riverdale or some areas in Queens, but you would be looking at a 2BR co-op apartment, most likely, for a sub $300k price point, and that would include maintenance.
You can afford areas in New Jersey, say areas in Monmouth County, where it's possible to find a house that would be in your budget range. The commute is an issue as the easiest route, the Seastreak ferry service is also fairly expensive ~$600/month round-trip. You could also take the North Jersey Coast Line, which would take about an hour and a half to get to Manhattan, not the short commute that you want, but you would be trading the time for an affordable family-oriented community. You can find other such places on LI, and in other areas of NY, Westchester and Rockland. Rockland is less expensive, and the taxes are not as crazy as parts of LI and Westchester, but are not inexpensive, nor are NJ taxes. However, even in Rockland, it would be difficult to stay under $300k for a single-family home in a good school district.
I would see what the final number would be in the NY metro area for salary and benefits, including any commuting allowances to defray the cost of the train or ferry. Then, you can decide what would work best for your family, considering the job. I would not immediately dismiss it out-of-hand, because there are areas where as single income family can still afford a decent neighborhood within commuting distance of Manhattan. Would it be possible to telecommute a day or two per week? If so, that would reduce the cost and stress of a commute, but not every position would allow for it. I agree that you should explore options to see what's of interest.
Some towns to consider in NJ would include: Middletown, Red Bank, and Hazlet. Brielle would be good, but likely too expensive for a single-family home, and the NJ forum can give specific advice should you find something of interest to consider.
Thanks for the thorough response. Cost of commute in $$ is not an issue, as they give me a car and pay gas, but the cost in time is a concern. My kids are only young once and I don't want to waste all day commuting when I could be there for them.
I'll look into the towns you listed, I'm starting to realize I'm going to have a commute if I want the home life to be acceptable for my wife.
This may be a crazy idea but I'll throw it out there. What about taking the job, moving here alone, and flying back on weekends? There's a guy on this board who (if I remember correctly) spends around $1100 a month for a studio in the Bronx and goes home to his family (wife and kids) in Baltimore on weekends. Yes, it would be much more difficult and costly to fly back to Indiana vs. taking the bus to Baltimore, and maybe it is a totally impossible idea, so take it for what it's worth.
I do know other people who fly to another location once a week for jobs, like I know of someone who lives in NYC and flies to Vermont once a week to teach.
And you mentioned that the NYC job experience builds your credibility substantially in your field so maybe you'd only need to do it for a year or two before you get offered a better position with better pay back in Indiana.
Thanks for the reply, this is encouraging. Sadly, the $75k is with a COL adjustment. I am confident the work would be great in NYC, and within my profession the credibility you get from working in that city can get you far in your career, I'm just really anxious about whether it will be worth the myriad sacrifices we will have to make in the short term.
So far I've tried looking at places in Jersey, and even found some good neighborhoods where I might be able to afford a home, but then learned that the $200/month flood insurance and steep taxes probably put them out of reach. Does anyone have any specific recommendations? Some basic research seemed to suggest the area of Pequanock Township might work, but the flooding is problematic. The commute is way worse than I'm used to and definitely at the max I might be able to tolerate (60-90 minutes as far as I can tell), so I wouldn't want to go further out than that.
I like the phrase " investment in practicality" for renting, but to me it still feels like giving away a certain future (money already in the bank) for an uncertain future (career potential). And the other part that has me nervous is the fact that renting isn't any cheaper, I can only get away with it because I could probably pay a portion of my rent from savings every month instead of putting that money into a down payment. I will consider renting, but I really prefer buying a home.
If you are considering NJ, I recommend Fort Lee/Leona/Palisades Park for your reference. There are 2br co-ops for ~ $200k. Benefits of living there include 1) saving you 3% NYC resident tax; 2) it is more suburban, less dense and much cleaner, and free of many of the qol issues you would face in NYC; 3) you can get into upper Manhattan fairly quick. There are shuttle buses from Fort Lee community center taking you to the 178th Street A/C lines that go downtown. Total commute time should be within an hour; 4) schools are acceptable. If you are willing to make some sacrifices and give NYC a try, I feel that this will be one of your best options all things considered.
I would urge you not to buy anything. Buying a home is a huge investment and you need to know if the environment is going to be right for your family. It's not always that easy to sell, depending on the timing and your property. It's worth it to rent for one year until you know the area because you might make a huge costly mistake if you buy something that doesn't work out.
75K would be fine for a single person or even a couple, but not with 2 children. And you will have a car which means money for maintenance and insurance. Where are you planning to park the car in lower Manhattan? Will the company pay for your gas, tolls, and a garage in Manhattan?
I think you would prefer one of the suburbs rather than NYC proper, but it's just not going to be affordable for you. I can't see you having enough money for 4 people after paying 2K rent. The commute from central or south Jersey is very tiring, although many people do it, but it does wear you down, especially if we have a bad winter. Maybe the idea that someone made of you doing this job for a year, just for the career boost while the family remains in Indiana is a reasonable compromise. After a year, you might be able to find another job in either NYC which will pay more or somewhere in a lower COL area, but your career will have benefited from the NYC position. A SAHM is going to be really miserable with the downsizing. Native New Yorkers might manage on that salary because of family or some sort of affordable housing program, but that is difficult for a transplant to acquire right away. Utilities for a home will be 3.5 times more. Homes tend to use either oil or gas heat and the housing stock is much older, which means there is more maintenance. Land is expensive so property sizes will be smaller. People do have backyards, but they are smaller. I wouldn't worry too much about the parks. Many of them are very nice and it's a way for the kids to socialize with their friends. Both NJ and NY have state income taxes plus sales tax for some things, and NYC has its own income tax. Property taxes in both NY and NJ will be 4 times higher than what you have now.
Thanks for the reply, this is encouraging. Sadly, the $75k is with a COL adjustment. I am confident the work would be great in NYC, and within my profession the credibility you get from working in that city can get you far in your career, I'm just really anxious about whether it will be worth the myriad sacrifices we will have to make in the short term.
So far I've tried looking at places in Jersey, and even found some good neighborhoods where I might be able to afford a home, but then learned that the $200/month flood insurance and steep taxes probably put them out of reach. Does anyone have any specific recommendations? Some basic research seemed to suggest the area of Pequanock Township might work, but the flooding is problematic. The commute is way worse than I'm used to and definitely at the max I might be able to tolerate (60-90 minutes as far as I can tell), so I wouldn't want to go further out than that.
I like the phrase " investment in practicality" for renting, but to me it still feels like giving away a certain future (money already in the bank) for an uncertain future (career potential). And the other part that has me nervous is the fact that renting isn't any cheaper, I can only get away with it because I could probably pay a portion of my rent from savings every month instead of putting that money into a down payment. I will consider renting, but I really prefer buying a home.
You're welcome
So, it seems like they're looking to give around a 7.5% differential. Objectively, this seems a little low. The state income for Indiana is 3.3%, flat rate. The effective rate for NY is around 7.5% (remember, you get to deduct state tax if you itemize, which you most likely do).
I'm thinking a 13 to 15% raise would be more in-line with reality.
Take out a map look west from the Holland Tunnel - the "78" corridor from Summit to Bridgewater.
Personally, I don't like New Jersey but it doesn't change the fact this is one of the nicest areas in the entire nation. Great schools and a reasonable commute to downtown. I bet your wife will fall in love with that area. You guys will make tons of friends - it's easy to do when you've young children.
You've got a huge leg-up if your company is paying for your private car. Heck, you'll easily be able to find 2 or 3 car poolers you can pick up ay central location (train station or Park-and-Ride in the morning and your Manhattan garage at night after work) and earn substantial extra income. I have a friend who does this and it's an extra $1100 - $1200 per month in his pocket.
This may be a crazy idea but I'll throw it out there. What about taking the job, moving here alone, and flying back on weekends? There's a guy on this board who (if I remember correctly) spends around $1100 a month for a studio in the Bronx and goes home to his family (wife and kids) in Baltimore on weekends. Yes, it would be much more difficult and costly to fly back to Indiana vs. taking the bus to Baltimore, and maybe it is a totally impossible idea, so take it for what it's worth.
I do know other people who fly to another location once a week for jobs, like I know of someone who lives in NYC and flies to Vermont once a week to teach.
And you mentioned that the NYC job experience builds your credibility substantially in your field so maybe you'd only need to do it for a year or two before you get offered a better position with better pay back in Indiana.
I know people who has done that for years I don't know how they can do it. When the weather gets bad here, a flight home or long drive can become a nightmare commute. You don't save any money because you're wasting time which is invaluable.
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