racism on this site (Lee: hotel, home, high school)
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You don't have to have slavery for there to be racial issues, or issues of discrimination.
I didn't say there weren't racial issues or discrimination. Read and follow the dicussion. Boogeydown claimed that slavery is justification for his racist remarks and racism. That was what I was talking to.
Don't start attributing things to me that I didn't say or claim because you don't read or comprehend things well.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
As for criminal behavior, define criminal behavior. Not all laws are just, and this can be true in homogenous societies as well. A woman getting raped is an adulteress in certain societies, and this is a crime punishable by death. Do I think this law is fair? No. I think it's an awful law.
But just because people are "criminals" don't make them bad people.
Criminal behavior as defined by the laws of this country. Again, if you had follow the context of the discussion, Boogeydown is suggesting that crimes committed by black are justfied because there's racism.
Unless you agree, I don't know why you would pick on this to argue over.
Considering that you only had civil rights laws for about 50 years, the net worth of Black people in general is far lower than the net worth of white people. Of course an INDIVIDUAL Black person can do well, and an INDIVIDUAL white person can do poorly, but let's not claim that everyone is starting from the same point!
I hate to tell you this but in a capitalist society in which we are in, not everyone can be rich. Not everyone is going to win. There are winners and there are losers. Just because there are blacks that are poor does not necessarily mean it was because of racism.
Now, if you had made that claim back in 1950, then I can't argue. But today, there are laws that precisely outlaw discrimination. I would say that blacks today, enjoy more protections under the law and more preferential treatment than any single group, even more than women. Constantly using the race/discrimination card no longer has any merit, especially considering how many blacks have become successful throughout all facets of society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Take supposed criminal activity. Poor Black people have been incarcerated in large numbers for selling marijuana. Yet it is very easy to go to a white doctor for "pain" and get prescribed opiates. Mind you opiate prescription addiction is killing large numbers of people of all races. Yet the medical profession doesn't get in trouble for this. At the same time, street dealers who are Black get locked up, and the US historically cracks down on certain South American nations for cocaine addiction, despite cocaine not being anywhere nearly addictive or as deadly as these opiate pills.
That is so absurd. You are equating an activity that is illegal (selling marijuana) and one that is clearly allowed by law (doctors proscribing medicine). If you don't think marijuana should be illegal, then work to get it legalize but for you to somehow turn that into racism is just more nonsensical whining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
So clearly people like you don't seem to be interested in justice.
Simply following the establishment just because those are the rules doesn't say much for one's IQ.
But I know you will never advocate for penalties against doctors who are pushing drugs (opiates).
Why would there be penalties against doctors pushing drugs that are legal? That's what they do: proscribe drugs. If they were pushing illegal drugs, then they should be penalized just like everyone else but they're not. So what are you talking about? Just more nonsense.
Last edited by antinimby; 02-21-2017 at 12:19 PM..
If you don't like my posts or are offended, you don't need to respond to them. That's pretty much what I've been doing to Airborneguy for the last week or so. I'm not here to coddle your Lilly white snowflake feelings, or Uncle Tom snowflake feelings for that matter either. So idgaf what you think I'd be better served doing or what you think I need to do, or whether or not you think I'm bigoted or racist. You don't have a real working definition of what racism or racial oppression is. You cannot be racist against white people because they have never been oppressed, they have never been raped, they have never faced institutional discrimination, and to this day they continue to hold all of the power in this country and use it to oppress people of color. When I speak about race, I am speaking about what white people actually do to people of color and how awful that is. That is anti-oppressive and self-defense, that is not racism. Do you expect me to sit silently and accept the racial oppression? Or should I just be more polite about how I voice my concerns about racial oppression? Fuuuuck that
I'm not going to deny that people of color have it harder than the average white person. However, there are certain things people say that derail any real progress on this issue. Right off the bat, saying only women of color have faced sexual assault is going to cause most people to shut you off right away. It's more helpful to focus on the principals of racism than to launch into this Black/White schism which only creates defensiveness. I'm bi-racial, but pass for white. I'm never going to know what it's like to live the life of someone who's say Wesley Snipes color. But what I can understand is the hurt and anger than someone would feel at being denied opportunities. I can understand what it's like to feel alienated and treated a certain way. I can understand having one's humanity diminished due to stereotypes. Too many people of color expect white folks to know what it's like to be non-white. That's unrealistic. If you approach the issue of racism from the angle of "How would you feel if (Insert issue here)?", then you'd be shocked how much headway can be made in bridging the ideological divide on this issue. Even the most conservative white folks usually end up agreeing with me when I broach the issue.
If we're going to go the route of saying racism is tied to oppression then by that metric you couldn't be racist against Obama because he was the POTUS. Obviously that's nonsense. If you hate/judge someone based off of skin color you're a racist, period. I separate racism from discrimination. Yes, it's true it's nearly impossible to institutionally discriminate against white people. However, interpersonal racism against white people is possible and real.
I hate to tell you this but in a capitalist society in which we are in, not everyone can be rich. Not everyone is going to win. There are winners and there are losers. Just because there are blacks that are poor does not necessarily mean it was because of racism. Now, if you had made that claim back in 1950, then I can't argue. But today, there are laws that precisely outlaw discrimination. I would say that blacks today, enjoy more protections under the law and more preferential treatment than any single group, including women. Constantly using the race/discrimination card no longer has any merit, especially considering how many blacks have become successful throughout all facets of society.
That is so absurd. You are equating an activity that is illegal (selling marijuana) and one that is clearly allowed by law (doctors proscribing medicine). If you don't think marijuana should be illegal, then work to get it legalize but for you to somehow turn that into racism is just more nonsensical whining.
Why would there be penalties against doctors pushing drugs that are legal? That's what they do: proscribe drugs. If they were pushing illegal drugs, then they should be penalized just like everyone else but they're not. So what are you talking about? Just more nonsense.
The legal drugs (opiates) have caused a massive opiate addiction problem that has lead to death, families falling apart, and ruined finances. But clearly you don't care about that, because talking about that would take away from you spouting right wing propaganda.
As for why would their be penalties against doctors, doctors can get in trouble for prescribing drugs when they are not necessary . You can get some doctors to prescribe opiates for a sprained TOE! But law enforcement doesn't put the same resources into going after doctors as they do poor Black street dealers. Still, if a doctor prescribed opiates repeatedly to people who don't need it ,and it is a reportable offense. Just like doctors falsifying records to help people qualify for SSI is illegal (it happens though).
Re: Marijuana legalization, the activists have been doing a good job in pushing legalization across the country and they continue to fight.
Re: capitalism. At nowhere did I say everyone in a capitalist society is going to do well. But take NYC. Poor people are disproportionately Black, for due to historical discrimination and current policies, and well to do people are disproportionately white, and this is not going to change anytime soon. It would take generations for things to even out. To even claim that everyone has the same chance of success is disingenuous.
Truthfully there is no such thing as a society where everyone has the same chance of success, even racially homogenuous societies. But people like you like to DEMONIZE and DEHUMANIZE the so called "criminals".
In the US it was illegal for Blacks and White to drink from the same water fountain, and interracial marriages were illegal until the Supreme Court ruled anti miscengenation laws unconstitutional. I am sure you have a defense for those laws as well, since you defend every law ever passed.
Sodomy was illegal in many states, and not just homosexual activity. Oral or anal sex among heterosexuals was illegal, making anyone who engaged in those acts technically criminal until the Supreme Court ruled these laws unconstitutional in 2005.
So being a criminal in the US doesn't really mean much necessarily. Going down on your wife or husband could have landed you in jail, and what lead the Supreme Court to rule these laws unconstitutional were two men having sex in the privacy of their own homes and they got arrested under Texas's anti sodomy laws. Previously,the state of Georgia got rid of their anti sodomy law when a man was convicted of performing oral sex on a woman he allegedly raped. The court found him not guilty of rape, but because he went down on her, he broke and law and was convicted. His lawyers fought the conviction.
Anyone who blindly follows ANY law is not displaying much in the level of intelligence.
I'm not going to deny that people of color have it harder than the average white person. However, there are certain things people say that derail any real progress on this issue. Right off the bat, saying only women of color have faced sexual assault is going to cause most people to shut you off right away. It's more helpful to focus on the principals of racism than to launch into this Black/White schism which only creates defensiveness. I'm bi-racial, but pass for white. I'm never going to know what it's like to live the life of someone who's say Wesley Snipes color. But what I can understand is the hurt and anger than someone would feel at being denied opportunities. I can understand what it's like to feel alienated and treated a certain way. I can understand having one's humanity diminished due to stereotypes. Too many people of color expect white folks to know what it's like to be non-white. That's unrealistic. If you approach the issue of racism from the angle of "How would you feel if (Insert issue here)?", then you'd be shocked how much headway can be made in bridging the ideological divide on this issue. Even the most conservative white folks usually end up agreeing with me when I broach the issue.
If we're going to go the route of saying racism is tied to oppression then by that metric you couldn't be racist against Obama because he was the POTUS. Obviously that's nonsense. If you hate/judge someone based off of skin color you're a racist, period. I separate racism from discrimination. Yes, it's true it's nearly impossible to institutionally discriminate against white people. However, interpersonal racism against white people is possible and real.
Yes and no. If a Black person who does not white people assaults them or does something malicious to them a call to the police will settle any problems.
If a white person discriminates against a Black person, it can be very difficult to address that via the legal system.
To even equate the two is dishonest at best.
Please demonstrate what mass suffering white people are having because of Black racists. There is none.
I'm not saying it's cool to hate anyone based on any identity, and this goes far beyond one's skin color. The same is true of nationality, religion, ethnicity, etc.
The US is a white majority country on top of that, so it's ridiculous to claim that white people here are suffering somehow because of Black racism or someone that there is all this Black racism that needs to be called out.
The legal drugs (opiates) have caused a massive opiate addiction problem that has lead to death, families falling apart, and ruined finances. But clearly you don't care about that, because talking about that would take away from you spouting right wing propaganda.
As for why would their be penalties against doctors, doctors can get in trouble for prescribing drugs when they are not necessary . You can get some doctors to prescribe opiates for a sprained TOE! But law enforcement doesn't put the same resources into going after doctors as they do poor Black street dealers. Still, if a doctor prescribed opiates repeatedly to people who don't need it ,and it is a reportable offense. Just like doctors falsifying records to help people qualify for SSI is illegal (it happens though).
Re: Marijuana legalization, the activists have been doing a good job in pushing legalization across the country and they continue to fight.
Re: capitalism. At nowhere did I say everyone in a capitalist society is going to do well. But take NYC. Poor people are disproportionately Black, for due to historical discrimination and current policies, and well to do people are disproportionately white, and this is not going to change anytime soon. It would take generations for things to even out. To even claim that everyone has the same chance of success is disingenuous.
Truthfully there is no such thing as a society where everyone has the same chance of success, even racially homogenuous societies. But people like you like to DEMONIZE and DEHUMANIZE the so called "criminals".
In the US it was illegal for Blacks and White to drink from the same water fountain, and interracial marriages were illegal until the Supreme Court ruled anti miscengenation laws unconstitutional. I am sure you have a defense for those laws as well, since you defend every law ever passed.
Sodomy was illegal in many states, and not just homosexual activity. Oral or anal sex among heterosexuals was illegal, making anyone who engaged in those acts technically criminal until the Supreme Court ruled these laws unconstitutional in 2005.
So being a criminal in the US doesn't really mean much necessarily. Going down on your wife or husband could have landed you in jail, and what lead the Supreme Court to rule these laws unconstitutional were two men having sex in the privacy of their own homes and they got arrested under Texas's anti sodomy laws. Previously,the state of Georgia got rid of their anti sodomy law when a man was convicted of performing oral sex on a woman he allegedly raped. The court found him not guilty of rape, but because he went down on her, he broke and law and was convicted. His lawyers fought the conviction.
Anyone who blindly follows ANY law is not displaying much in the level of intelligence.
Wow, look at all this BS that I have to address.
First of all, if you are talking about doctors abusing their duties, then there are consequences for that, both civilly and criminally (if people get hurt) so to claim that doctors get away with things is so false.
Also, please show me where I am "spouting right wing agenda."
As for NYC poors being disproportionately black, one, I don't believe that is correct so you'll have to show proof. I see plenty of poor Latinos and Asians. I see Asians digging through trash for 5 cent bottles. You never see blacks do that. So yeah, you really need to show proof.
I do see though, blacks (again not all) with lots of time on their hands, hanging out at the street corners during working hours, having a good time, joking, arguing, drinking, yelling at passerbys, etc. Funny you never see Asians or Indians or Jews doing that sort of thing. Makes you think.
Also, it might be that NYC is very generous with social programs so poor people tend to gravitate here. You see, instead of jumping to the easy conclusions of racism, maybe you should look at other possibilities.
You are ridiculous to even try to justify criminals and criminal behavior. It doesn't matter if a crime is sensible or not. We all have to abide by it while it is still on the books. Again, no one is forcing blacks to commit crimes (even if you think they aren't valid). We have a system. If a law does not make sense, then there is a procedure to change it but until the change occurs we all have to abide by it.
Only you (and Boogeydown) can make these really dumb comments and no one (besides myself) will call you guys out on them.
Yes and no. If a Black person who does not white people assaults them or does something malicious to them a call to the police will settle any problems.
If a white person discriminates against a Black person, it can be very difficult to address that via the legal system.
To even equate the two is dishonest at best.
In my post, I mentioned that I separated interpersonal racism from institutional discrimination. Yes, you can't call the police for being turned down for a job and it is extremely hard to stamp out institutional racism from our society, which I also said overwhelmingly is against people of color. However, if a white person called a black person the n-word and assaulted them on the street it would be on the news for weeks.
Yes and no. If a Black person who does not white people assaults them or does something malicious to them a call to the police will settle any problems.
If a white person discriminates against a Black person, it can be very difficult to address that via the legal system.
To even equate the two is dishonest at best.
Please demonstrate what mass suffering white people are having because of Black racists. There is none.
I'm not saying it's cool to hate anyone based on any identity, and this goes far beyond one's skin color. The same is true of nationality, religion, ethnicity, etc.
The US is a white majority country on top of that, so it's ridiculous to claim that white people here are suffering somehow because of Black racism or someone that there is all this Black racism that needs to be called out.
An individual suffering because of racism is still racism, even if it's not large-scale group suffering.
Considering that you only had civil rights laws for about 50 years, the net worth of Black people in general is far lower than the net worth of white people. Of course an INDIVIDUAL Black person can do well, and an INDIVIDUAL white person can do poorly, but let's not claim that everyone is starting from the same point!
Take supposed criminal activity. Poor Black people have been incarcerated in large numbers for selling marijuana. Yet it is very easy to go to a white doctor for "pain" and get prescribed opiates. Mind you opiate prescription addiction is killing large numbers of people of all races. Yet the medical profession doesn't get in trouble for this. At the same time, street dealers who are Black get locked up, and the US historically cracks down on certain South American nations for cocaine addiction, despite cocaine not being anywhere nearly addictive or as deadly as these opiate pills.
So clearly people like you don't seem to be interested in justice.
Simply following the establishment just because those are the rules doesn't say much for one's IQ.
But I know you will never advocate for penalties against doctors who are pushing drugs (opiates).
There are consequences for physicians who over prescribe pain medication. They come up for review and can lose their medical license. In some cases they may go to jail which has happened in a few cases with physicians in Las Vegas having wild parties and abusing their position by proving said party favors. They have oversight and the consequences can be legal. It doesn't matter their race either but rather their practice of medicine. The opiaite issue is so much bigger than pointing the finger at one thing and saying this is it.
It's about medical ethics however and shouldn't be confused with race. What you infer is not a racial issue and certainly a stretch to get there. I can't even go there and have that conversation when people attempt to make it about a race issue. They have their agendas and nothing you can say will enlighten willful ignorance when they're beating and marching to their own drums, and coming from ego centered place and not a heart centered communication. They're not doctors or medical experts and they really have no clue what the medical side of it all is. So I just stop responding most of the time and fall back to relating with those in the medical community that get it without having to write novels in explanation. That no one with short attention spans are willing to read.
If we want to connect race with medicine perhaps a better example would be the recent social media campaign to recognize physicians of all colors. Which came about because a flight crew asked for a doctor on board to help with a passenger and an African American female physician responded. Only to be disbelieved by the flight staff to be a doctor and was turned away with them saying, "You don't look like a doctor." The disbelief that a black female physician exists spurred the social media campaign asking doctors of all ethnic backgrounds to share their photos with the caption, "This is what a doctor looks like." To raise the general awareness there are successful doctors of all backgrounds.
Once that was underway a similar incident on a plane occurred a second time within weeks of the first incident so the social media campaign launched for a second round. It was kind of unbelievable, but this isn't the only example in medicine of bigotry.
When my husband walks into a room to see a patient they sometimes judge him and treat him poorly based on his Muslim name and his looks. He still has to act professional in response, but when they're rude about it he's also quick witted and sharp tounged. He was never made more aware of his skin color before moving here and the stories he comes home and tells me about it is heartbreaking sometimes.
If you go to KevinMD online anyone interested can read similar stories. Such as Harvard educated women of color wearing the hijab have dealt with bigotry in medicine when patients assume they're from another country and question where they went to medical school. All without knowing that even if they went to an international medical school they still have to pass the same exams that medical students here have to pass to get a U.S. residency. They also have to go through a U.S. Residency and/or Fellowship program again even if they've been through residency in their country and were already doing private practice for years seeing their own patients.
It's a very rigorous process to have to repeat the training years again. Some of you know this but forgive the repeat. As a medical spouse I've already been through medical school in a foreign country. Then residency in that country. Then compulsory military duty as a solider doctor for a medical point of 2,500 soilders. During a time of war when bombs were dropping on their borders and I was scared to death for him being deployed to the front lines and taking in wounded. Then after military duty we had a private clinic in a resort town on the sea. He worked with three other doctors serving foreign tourists. The clinic was European certified and dealt with European insurance. They had arrangements with hotels and tour guides that if a tourist became sick they call us and we'd send one of our town cars to pick up the patient and bring them to the clinic to attend to them. Sometimes admitting them to our second floor or if needed for more emergent cases admit them to the hospital.
Then immigrating here it took us three years from filing to stepping foot on this soil. Legal immigration based on a family based visa can also be a long arduous process with the repeated multiple background checks. Immigration is a whole other story from the labor of the medical journey.
Once here we went through the USMLE steps through the ECFMG. It's like going through medical school all over again. Now we're doing residency and next we're on to a fellowship. Then if he doesn't want to do another Fellowship after that we have to find "the job". I won't even get into the uncertainty physician families face here with the future of medicine today after training, and the concerns about reimbursement and what's happening with the U.S. political agenda regarding medicine.
I did see a funny post on social media circulating lately that may also apply here to sum it up. It said, "Yes Gary, with the High School Diploma. Abdullah the neurosurgeon is taking your jobs and ruining society for you."
Last edited by Merrily Gather; 02-21-2017 at 01:41 PM..
Reason: Sorry typing on phone
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