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Downtown Brooklyn is experiencing a once in a generation construction boom. Within just a 6 block radious you have 5 high rises and one super tall (the first outside of manhattan) that will bring thousands of residents and tons of retail on top of thousands of current residents and the already abundant current retail. This includes an Extell tower (first outside of manhattan) with studios starting at 900k. How many developers are running to build projects like this in flushing?
Another thing to consider; Downtown Bk is just getting started! Read the real estate blogs on all the projects coming down the pipeline. Your talking about; an Apple store, a Whole Foods, re-doing the Adams park to make it easier to access dumbo, expanding and remodeling Macy’s, tons of new schools, a new cultural center at 300 Ashland, huge new park on willoughby, the city’s first underground automated garage, a new office tower across from city point, hotels, etc. the list goes on and on. Not to mention Downtown Brooklyn is the most connected neighborhood in the city with almost every line passing through it.
It’s one thing to argue over which neighborhood you perfer; I’m sure plenty of people would prefer flushing over a busy place like Downtown Brooklyn or LIC. But to say that flushing has a larger business district, more pipeline projects, or is more desirable to high net worth individuals who want an extension of Manhattan is just not factual.
I hope it all works out for Downtown Brooklyn. Especially since its the non-Manhattan CBD that I spend the most time in.
Unless you have stats to share, I'd say that right now, brand new commercial space and brand new luxury residential space in Downtown Flushing exceeds that of Downtown Brooklyn by price per square foot. Downtown Flushing is busier than anywhere in Downtown Brooklyn or LIC.
The whole thing is that you can’t build towers of great height in Flushing because of the airport, but they would almost certainly appear if they were allowed. I’m not saying that there’d be more or be taller than those of downtown Brooklyn, but they would certainly exist. Downtown Brooklyn is seeing an incredible boom right now--so is Flushing. You're talking about City Point for the Extell Tower and that's going to be massive as a mixed-use billion dollar project, but the thing is Flushing also has projects of that scale with the caveat that they can't go as high. Flushing Commons is also a billion dollar megaproject, but has to spread wider simply because of height restrictions. The money and the density exists in downtown Flushing, but yet you're thinking of dentist offices and elderly care facilities.
My worry is that downtown Brooklyn isn’t going to be very interesting architecturally or in terms of retail/shops, but so far it hasn’t been too bad in terms of the latter. The food halls that opened up aren’t much to my liking, but I do like having another movie theater option and there are a handful of okay quick bites that have opened. BAM seems certain to stay, the park is nice, and the farmer’s market has gotten better. I think the only thing that’s really rubbed me the wrong way is that one of my favorite restaurants, a great Yemeni one, is gone and I’m wondering if that’s a harbinger of things to come for the other Arabic shops and restaurants along Atlantic Ave.
I think it's interesting that you and G-Dale take turns downplaying downtown Flushing and downtown Brooklyn, respectively. It's also interesting that no one's really talking much about Long Island City and downtown Jersey City.
I just find what is going on right now in Downtown Flushing to me more impressive. And that is saying a lot considering the money being funneled into Downtown Brooklyn and LIC. Just imagine when the Chinese money gets its hands on Willets Point.
The primary thing Jersey City has going for it is that it's very close to Manhattan. I can be at my office in the FiDi from Jersey City door to door in 35 minutes. I head to the WTC PATH station and walk from there.
Everyone I know works in the city. It's a poor man's alternative to Brooklyn.
Huh, interesting. I know there's a huge number of back office operations in Jersey City, so it's interesting to hear that you personally don't know anyone who works there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale
I hope it all works out for Downtown Brooklyn. Especially since its the non-Manhattan CBD that I spend the most time in.
Unless you have stats to share, I'd say that right now, brand new commercial space and brand new luxury residential space in Downtown Flushing exceeds that of Downtown Brooklyn by price per square foot. Downtown Flushing is busier than anywhere in Downtown Brooklyn or LIC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale
I just find what is going on right now in Downtown Flushing to me more impressive. And that is saying a lot considering the money being funneled into Downtown Brooklyn and LIC. Just imagine when the Chinese money gets its hands on Willets Point.
Do you have stats to share? It would be interesting to see them.
I don't think Willets Point is going to happen as is expected (that airtrain thing is especially stupid and I really hope that does not happen). I think what irritates me is that the city must know the metrics pretty well of how quickly expanding downtown Flushing has been, but hasn't really recognized it as much as an economic driver for the city which helps neither the city coffers nor the people in Flushing. It makes sense for the city to really try to invest in that part of town, but the city certainly has not put in the same kind of effort as they have with LIC or downtown Brooklyn. The 7 train is unlikely to expand any further within our lifetimes on this end, and the improvements on the Port Washington Branch or any move towards making the fare more reasonable for inter-city travel is unlikely to improve anytime soon. It's pretty silly. I think the only thing on the horizon is that the East Side Access plan might raise frequencies for the LIRR branch, but that's about it.
Huh, interesting. I know there's a huge number of back office operations in Jersey City, so it's interesting to hear that you personally don't know anyone who works there.
Do you have stats to share? It would be interesting to see them.
I don't think Willets Point is going to happen as is expected (that airtrain thing is especially stupid and I really hope that does not happen). I think what irritates me is that the city must know the metrics pretty well of how quickly expanding downtown Flushing has been, but hasn't really recognized it as much as an economic driver for the city which helps neither the city coffers nor the people in Flushing. It makes sense for the city to really try to invest in that part of town, but the city certainly has not put in the same kind of effort as they have with LIC or downtown Brooklyn. The 7 train is unlikely to expand any further within our lifetimes on this end, and the improvements on the Port Washington Branch or any move towards making the fare more reasonable for inter-city travel is unlikely to improve anytime soon. It's pretty silly. I think the only thing on the horizon is that the East Side Access plan might raise frequencies for the LIRR branch, but that's about it.
I'm hoping Principal Lewis can provide some stats. I'd like to see them too.
Maybe Downtown Flushing doesn't need the government investments. I wouldn't place too much trust that the city knows these metrics well.
I'm hoping Principal Lewis can provide some stats. I'd like to see them too.
Maybe Downtown Flushing doesn't need the government investments. I wouldn't place too much trust that the city knows these metrics well.
I see. I'm doubtful price per square foot for commercial rent in Flushing would be higher than in downtown Brooklyn (certainly not more than DUMBO which I lumped in, and even with such a small area, it would slide the average quite a bit). I'm pretty sure residentially, price per square foot is higher in downtown Brooklyn than in downtown Flushing, but it's interesting how high they are in Flushing with its distance from Manhattan.
Basically, I think the city should study and put more resources into Flushing in general. I think the city needs further out and strong secondary CBDs in general. Downtown Flushing is an interesting case of this.
I see. I'm doubtful price per square foot for commercial rent in Flushing would be higher than in downtown Brooklyn (certainly not more than DUMBO which I lumped in, and even with such a small area, it would slide the average quite a bit). I'm pretty sure residentially, price per square foot is higher in downtown Brooklyn than in downtown Flushing, but it's interesting how high they are in Flushing with its distance from Manhattan.
Basically, I think the city should study and put more resources into Flushing in general. I think the city needs further out and strong secondary CBDs in general. Downtown Flushing is an interesting case of this.
I think you'd be very surprised at what that number in Downtown Flushing comes in at.
I think you'd be very surprised at what that number in Downtown Flushing comes in at.
I think that's great for you to say, but you also don't actually provide any numbers with your statement either so why should what you're saying count for anything?
And no, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm pretty familiar with real estate in Flushing, at least more so than most people and I'm in Flushing probably three times a month at least and know people who live and work there. I also still sort of want to move there even though it's completely nonsensical commute-wise.
Look at Sky View Parc which is at the upper end of newer Flushing real estate. Look at some of its condos and their prices. Condos are a bit harder to come by for new construction in downtown Brooklyn, but here's a somewhat new one in downtown Brooklyn (388 Bridge St). It's crazy that Flushing can be that competitive, but if you look at the price per square feet, there is a difference. What gets really wild is when you start including DUMBO with this.
I don't get the notion of just saying things, but then leaving it for others to prove it wrong. You and Principle Lewis should work on this together, as buddies!
The primary thing Jersey City has going for it is that it's very close to Manhattan. I can be at my office in the FiDi from Jersey City door to door in 35 minutes. I head to the WTC PATH station and walk from there.
Everyone I know works in the city. It's a poor man's alternative to Brooklyn.
If you call it a poor man’s alternative, then surely you understand that most people prefer to live in certain parts of Brooklyn over Jersey City. Every neighborhood has its pros and cons. Comparing the cost is meaningless if you don’t look at the factors that contribute to the difference in cost. For example, the PATH train access is great if you work and hang out in areas near the PATH stations but it’s not that convenient for large swaths of the city and also runs less frequently during late nights. The vibes may also be quite different and there are many folks who find it worthwhile to pay more for a more vibrant area.
What are current rents like anyway in Jersey City? How do they compare with rents in Downtown Brooklyn and LIC?
I think that's great for you to say, but you also don't actually provide any numbers with your statement either so why should what you're saying count for anything?
And no, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm pretty familiar with real estate in Flushing, at least more so than most people and I'm in Flushing probably three times a month at least and know people who live and work there. I also still sort of want to move there even though it's completely nonsensical commute-wise.
Look at Sky View Parc which is at the upper end of newer Flushing real estate. Look at some of its condos and their prices. Condos are a bit harder to come by for new construction in downtown Brooklyn, but here's a somewhat new one in downtown Brooklyn (388 Bridge St). It's crazy that Flushing can be that competitive, but if you look at the price per square feet, there is a difference. What gets really wild is when you start including DUMBO with this.
I don't get the notion of just saying things, but then leaving it for others to prove it wrong. You and Principle Lewis should work on this together, as buddies!
Principle Lewis' assessment of Downtown Flushing is so far off that we couldn't work together. Plus he is already invested in boring Downtown Brooklyn, so he'd be bias.
I'd expect Downtown Brooklyn to me more expensive than Downtown Flushing based off of proximity to Lower Manhattan itself. Dumbo is no longer part of Downtown Brooklyn, and was created for the wealthy, so prices need to be exaggerated there otherwise it wouldn't be Dumbo. Sorry, I just do not see the appeal of Downtown Brooklyn other than it having close proximity to other neighborhoods. BAM is in Fort Greene, Barclay Center is in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn Bridge Park is in Dumbo/Brooklyn Heights, and Junior's just ain't that good. People go to Downtown Brooklyn to go to the DMV. It has no appeal in itself. Downtown Flushing does. A CBD needs to have things going on other than people going there to sit in an office from 9-5. Hopefully all this development can change that. But I'm not impressed by just seeing super tall skyscrapers. Actually, I find the new developments in Downtown Flushing to have more curb appeal.
Principle Lewis' assessment of Downtown Flushing is so far off that we couldn't work together. Plus he is already invested in boring Downtown Brooklyn, so he'd be bias.
I'd expect Downtown Brooklyn to me more expensive than Downtown Flushing based off of proximity to Lower Manhattan itself. Dumbo is no longer part of Downtown Brooklyn, and was created for the wealthy, so prices need to be exaggerated there otherwise it wouldn't be Dumbo. Sorry, I just do not see the appeal of Downtown Brooklyn other than it having close proximity to other neighborhoods. BAM is in Fort Greene, Barclay Center is in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn Bridge Park is in Dumbo/Brooklyn Heights, and Junior's just ain't that good. People go to Downtown Brooklyn to go to the DMV. It has no appeal in itself. Downtown Flushing does. A CBD needs to have things going on other than people going there to sit in an office from 9-5. Hopefully all this development can change that. But I'm not impressed by just seeing super tall skyscrapers. Actually, I find the new developments in Downtown Flushing to have more curb appeal.
That’s great, but you also just flat out make things up about both DUMBO and downtown Brooklyn. You dislike first, find justification later, only for it to be made up. You don’t like it, then you don’t like it. I don’t get the part where you need to make stuff up.
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