Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
/\ Never said they were, but they damn sure are better than ridiculously high taxes + bad economic climate. NYC is an awesome vector of people, ideas and energy, and making it a cheaper place to do buisness would set things off much more (and lift more out of poverty as well)
This is something that is more the topic of a philsophical conversation. What I'll say is that while on the face of it you make good points, the fact is the people at the top either don't see it or don't care. The trends are what they are and NY is better served not anchoring itself to a sinking ship.
Agreed. I don't advocate high taxes. They are already ridiculous as they are and I hate it. But lets keep things in perspective. If NYC economy is based upon money brokers, stock exchange and real estate speculations, be ready to go up or sink with the roulette wheel.
It looks as the economy will be only a series of bubbles and bursts. That's the new normal.
Some of these things run counter to one another. Investment in higher education and investment in manufacturing are directly counter.
Plus, property prices and cost of living (and thus wages) in NYC will always be too expensive to support manufacturing and compete with, say, small town Indiana, let alone China; it's just not worth it.
"Embrace green technologies"--what does this even mean? The city invests a lot in encouraging the use of green technology. But cities are not the place for manufacturing of green tech, for the same reason cities cannot really support any type of manufacturing any more (at least, successful cities like NYC; failed cities like Cleveland with much lower costs can).
You asked what does this even mean in relation to my green technologies statement. So first lets start from a place where we both have a common understanding of the words being used
Green Technology/Clean Technology = any technology that is environmentally friendlier than a comparable existing technology; also called green technology Example: Solar power is an example of cleantech.
Now you claim a city is no place for this, however the market doesn't agree with you. There are already biodiesel firms in Brooklyn and other parts of the city (I cant recall which borough). There are companies that focus on converting brown fields into usable land. There are companies that do the R&D for clean tech/green tech. So yes, it can be done in the city and it is already being done. Look up diesel made from algae, thats another great example.
Also, not sure how old you are but ask a old time NYer about the manufacturing plants that used to be in NYC, there were tons. but just as they died off in other parts of the country they died off in NYC too. I wont go into the whats and whys because that would take us off topic.
As for the expensiveness of NYC, not sure if you noticed but the economy is still in the tank, property values are still falling. That is not going to stop anytime soon until values are back inline with incomes. Generally takes the same amount of time to go up as it does to come down. Don't believe me, research the saving and loans days in NYC to see what the city is in for. Except I think this time it will be more sever, because the nature of this downtown is a bit different than the last time.
Lastly nope, higher education and manufacturing is not counter to each other. These places need skilled labor depending on the nature of the work. Also these factories don't run themselves based on magic an fairy dust. They need people who can efficiently run them and manage them etc. Also, I am not saying that manufacturing be the ONLY industry in the New-New York.
Either way my post was 2 years ago. My idea of what is needed has changed a bit. I think I underestimated the severity of this situation. Given peak oil, devaluation of the dollar, brain drain in the states, we don't produce anything the world needs or cares about etc. I think its going to take more than just shuffling a few things around now. Also, I dont think some people are going to make it back from this financially, it is what it is at this point.
You asked what does this even mean in relation to my green technologies statement. So first lets start from a place where we both have a common understanding of the words being used
Green Technology/Clean Technology = any technology that is environmentally friendlier than a comparable existing technology; also called green technology Example: Solar power is an example of cleantech.
Now you claim a city is no place for this, however the market doesn't agree with you. There are already biodiesel firms in Brooklyn and other parts of the city (I cant recall which borough). There are companies that focus on converting brown fields into usable land. There are companies that do the R&D for clean tech/green tech. So yes, it can be done in the city and it is already being done. Look up diesel made from algae, thats another great example.
All of this is well and good, but there isn't a whole lot of room for growth in brownfield conversion (and it's always been there), and R&D is already something the city does a lot of (and subsidizes), so I'm not sure what you're focusing on.
Quote:
Also, not sure how old you are but ask a old time NYer about the manufacturing plants that used to be in NYC, there were tons. but just as they died off in other parts of the country they died off in NYC too. I wont go into the whats and whys because that would take us off topic.
Yes, and they died off in NYC earlier than elsewhere because New York City is too expensive, and its land is too valuable to be used by industrial development. Manufacturing is alive (not well, but alive) in a lot of the country. It's dead in NYC, and it isn't coming back.
Quote:
As for the expensiveness of NYC, not sure if you noticed but the economy is still in the tank, property values are still falling. That is not going to stop anytime soon until values are back inline with incomes. Generally takes the same amount of time to go up as it does to come down. Don't believe me, research the saving and loans days in NYC to see what the city is in for. Except I think this time it will be more sever, because the nature of this downtown is a bit different than the last time.
LOL, okay. Property prices are not falling any more. They have been rising for over a year. Incomes are also rising in NYC. The city has financial problems, but the financial problems here are a lot less severe than elsewhere in the country, and those don't have anything to do with property values or incomes, really.
Quote:
Lastly nope, higher education and manufacturing is not counter to each other. These places need skilled labor depending on the nature of the work. Also these factories don't run themselves based on magic an fairy dust. They need people who can efficiently run them and manage them etc. Also, I am not saying that manufacturing be the ONLY industry in the New-New York.
Management is a tiny portion of any manufacturing facility's employment. And college-educated laborers are more expensive (demand more pay) and do very specialized work that also accounts for only a tiny proportion of manufacturing. Most manufacturing jobs are always unskilled labor, or at least labor with the skill of a high school diploma from trade school. Chemical engineers, etc., account for only a tiny fraction of even the most advanced technological manufacturing.
Quote:
Either way my post was 2 years ago. My idea of what is needed has changed a bit. I think I underestimated the severity of this situation. Given peak oil, devaluation of the dollar, brain drain in the states, we don't produce anything the world needs or cares about etc. I think its going to take more than just shuffling a few things around now. Also, I dont think some people are going to make it back from this financially, it is what it is at this point.
All true, but New York City is not a microcosm of the country. These things have to happen where they can happen. NYC is better as the financial engine of those changes than trying to do it all at once.
NYC is better as the financial engine of those changes than trying to do it all at once.
You refer to the casino known as the stock exchange? That's what you recommend 8 million people's lives to depend upon? Then be ready to go with the roller-coaster. People need more then gambling to support their families in the long run.
It is the year 2011, if our government has not figured out a way to make things run smoothly and prosperly (sp) for everyone, we ain't never gonna get it !!!
By this time in (20t11) we should have everything down to a science and things should not be going wrong, there should be no shortages, no defecits, no economic problems.....
after all these years of having governmet......we still cant get it right.........
ya think maybe its the PEOPLE in our government that are the problem????????????
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
