Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
$45,000 - 90,000 for an individual
$75,000 - 135,00 - for a family of 4
But it is estimated that to enjoy the same standard that most people enjoy in rest of the country, that are comfortably middle class, an individual would have to earn at least $123,000 in NYC. This is give or take for which boro a person lives in.
Wow!
Thanks DAS. According to your post I'm middle class.
$45,000 - 90,000 for an individual
$75,000 - 135,00 - for a family of 4
But it is estimated that to enjoy the same standard that most people enjoy in rest of the country, that are comfortably middle class, an individual would have to earn at least $123,000 in NYC. This is give or take for which boro a person lives in.
Thanks DAS. That feels right to me, in terms of my own experience. I was definitely on the lower rung of the middle class--genteel poverty, at times. Luckily, I was not very interested in all the high-end or upper-class lifestyle perks of NYC. The underground poetry and music scene was my favorite cultural outlet, and that was never about the money. Making $45,000-48,000/yr. was enough to live on and go to the opera, the theatre, and travel from time to time--if I saved up for it. Taxes continue to be a huge issue.
Anyway, I appreciate your specificity. I am making a real go of it here in Madison so far, but I am keeping my eye on NYC. You never know...
$45,000 - 90,000 for an individual
$75,000 - 135,00 - for a family of 4
But it is estimated that to enjoy the same standard that most people enjoy in rest of the country, that are comfortably middle class, an individual would have to earn at least $123,000 in NYC. This is give or take for which boro a person lives in.
I think I agree with the 45 to 90 for an individual and the 75 to 135 for a family but the 123 for an individual to have "the same standard that most people enjoy in the rest of the country" seems absurd.
I make considerably less than 123( less than 100 even) and I have a very,very comfortable life in NYC including a large apartment( co-op),frequent travel (including abroad),frequent nights out,etc and still manage to save quite a bit.
I think I agree with the 45 to 90 for an individual and the 75 to 135 for a family but the 123 for an individual to have "the same standard that most people enjoy in the rest of the country" seems absurd.
I make considerably less than 123( less than 100 even) and I have a very,very comfortable life in NYC including a large apartment( co-op),frequent travel (including abroad),frequent nights out,etc and still manage to save quite a bit.
I agree with you bluedog2. I think a lot of that has to do with your thinking outside of the box, when it comes to the neighborhood that you live in. That $123,000 is basically for an individual in Manhattan. You have looked beyond the so-called chic neighborhoods, and found, clean, safe, area, convenient to transportation, and has other comforts, right in the Bronx.
NY has been building and been encouraging the building of lots of middle class housing for years.Check out the HPD website for available developments. HPD - Homebuyers - Current Housing Lotteries
There are downpayment assistance programs,housing programs for municipal employees,etc.
And believe it or not,there are a lot of middle income people who are on section 8.They just pay a higher percentage of their rent themselves.
Not saying that it is necessarily enough but NY might actually provide more middle class housing assistance than any other city in the country.
The schools will never get much better until the city raises property taxes and is willing to pay the same or close to the same as suburban districts do on a per student /per year basis.Everyone complains about the taxes in NY but in reality,the property taxes(which pay for education) are much lower than anywhere around.And NYC spends 8,500/yr per student on education while districts in Westchester,Nassau,Suffolk and most of NJ and CT spend double and sometimes triple that amount.
When New York increases property taxes, hopefully they will eliminate "city taxes" that other jurisdictions don't pay.
When New York increases property taxes, hopefully they will eliminate "city taxes" that other jurisdictions don't pay.
They could eliminate a lot of other taxes if they'd overhaul the property tax system and assess and tax everything at full market value, as is done everywhere else.But they never will.Too many real estate special interest groups with their fingers in the tax pie. New York City Property Tax System: A Nice Mess
The NYC tax system is designed to make it look like the average Joe homeowner is getting a good deal while actually screwing him and giving the bulk of the really good tax deals to real estate and other special interests.
Also, do you see a future where the city is more friendly to the middle class?
I believe the answer to that question involves our electing a mayor who (A) isn't a billionaire, and simultaneously (B) actually recognizes people who don't happen to be in his own income group.
NY has been building and been encouraging the building of lots of middle class housing for years.Check out the HPD website for available developments. HPD - Homebuyers - Current Housing Lotteries
There are downpayment assistance programs,housing programs for municipal employees,etc.
And believe it or not,there are a lot of middle income people who are on section 8.They just pay a higher percentage of their rent themselves.
Not saying that it is necessarily enough but NY might actually provide more middle class housing assistance than any other city in the country.
The schools will never get much better until the city raises property taxes and is willing to pay the same or close to the same as suburban districts do on a per student /per year basis.Everyone complains about the taxes in NY but in reality,the property taxes(which pay for education) are much lower than anywhere around.And NYC spends 8,500/yr per student on education while districts in Westchester,Nassau,Suffolk and most of NJ and CT spend double and sometimes triple that amount.
In NJ, Mount Laurel makes it so that the lowest performing school districts get a subsidy from all other districts so that their per-pupil spending is equal to the spending of the wealthy districts that spend the most. The results have not been dramatic increases in test scores or anything- Newark schools are still terrible and so are all the others that get the subsidy. NYC's schools do not need more funding or, at least, more funding does not necessarily equal better results.
Property taxes might be low for 1-4 family houses, but they are high for commercial property. The city is still sucking in tremendous amounts of money, even if regular joe six-pack from queens doesn't see it as directly as someone in the burbs does.
Are there any major programs or new initiatives out there in order to retain moderate income individuals and families?
Also, do you see a future where the city is more friendly to the middle class?
Special interests block most initiatives that would make the city more livable for the middle class:
housing cost- this, imo, is probably the biggest issue middle class people face when choosing whether to come to, leave, or stay in nyc. The city seems to do everything it possibly can to make development difficult and expensive, then inexplicably also serves up tax subsidies to get projects done.
Neighborhood groups and other such things fight against any change that will effect them in any way (my cats won't get enough sunlight if they build the tower, the traffic!!, the congestion!!, where will I park?!?!?, the train's too crowded!!!) while also bemoaning the cost of housing. Same thing with anti-gentrification efforts.
The answer to this problem is not more programs, because that only leads to more...
taxes- I don't see the city reigning in the drunken sailor spending habits it has. Too many vested interests are getting rich, or, at least, staying alive off of the average guy's tax money.
I don't understand why more people don't see it as unjust that we are forcing out families of four making $65,000 to support families of 4 where every single member of the family doesn't work and hasn't for years.
schools- charter schools are a good solution to the schools issue in nyc, but every bit of support for them is shouted at as "union-busting", segregation or whatever else people want to complain about.
crime- every indication is that it's getting better, city-wide, at least.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
