Does living in New York City really harden you? (Ridge: transplants, how much)
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Like a lot of people I've always dreamed of living in New York City, so right now I'm seriously considering going to school there. I am from Vancouver, Canada and here I very rarely ever feel unsafe. Maybe it has to do with Canada's smaller population, but I always feel I have to be more on my guard when travelling through the US. It's such a chaotic and belligerent society. I remember going to Seattle one Sunday at a busy mall and I was in one particular clothing store that was pretty packed. The manager got into a shouting match with some girls she suspected of shoplifting (they had been complaining about the long lineup or something) and she very loudly ordered them to get out of her store, and then called mall security. She wasn't hush hush about it at all. She was not concerned with keeping some modicum of propriety and politeness. I guess I'm too used to being around polite and friendly Canadian folks. I kept thinking "This would never happen in Canada!" Life is so much tamer here.
But for the most part people were friendly enough, but Seattle ain't no NYC. If that's how I found SEATTLE, what in the world will NYC be like? (I've been to NYC but it was only for a day in touristy areas, but I imagine living and working there would be an entirely different experience.)
So what I would like to know is, am I going to get crushed if I don't steel myself, grow thick skin, and lose my Canadian inclination for geniality and adopt a more hardened outlook? New York is also the epicenter of weird people. I mean seriously, apparently New Yorkers find Californians to be too soft. I'm thinking Good God if they're considered soft how am I going to fare as a Vancouverite? (LOL I don't remember who said this but they were trying to illustrate how much more professional & cutthroat people were in LA compared to Vancouver because everyone wore SUITS to work and we were so uber casual here. )
First of all your retail situation could of happened ANYWHERE and I mean anywhere. I worked in retail for my whole educational career and lets just say its usually a rude customer that starts it off. Never will someone be innocently shopping minding their own business and the manager will randomly come over and yell. Nope never. And this was working in OHIO which is the headquarters for sissys.
Yes you do have to thick skin to live here but I think people living everywhere should have thick skin. No one is going to hold your hand through life. Its not happening and its DEFINITELY not happening here. What you may see as nice and polite may actually come across as wimpy and a pushover. If you where confident in your ability to handle things you wouldn't of even asked.
I consider myself a very nice person however if someone gives me incorrect change I'm not going to smile sweetly and walk away. I think NYC is the most "real" city in the country. People are who they are and if you don't like it live somewhere else. I have friends who moved here from small towns who expect an apology from everyone who bumps them on the subway. Thats not gonna happen.
And if you think LA is cut throat come here and work. And regarding wearing suits to work. Depends on the industry.
Like a lot of people I've always dreamed of living in New York City, so right now I'm seriously considering going to school there. I am from Vancouver, Canada and here I very rarely ever feel unsafe. Maybe it has to do with Canada's smaller population, but I always feel I have to be more on my guard when travelling through the US. It's such a chaotic and belligerent society. I remember going to Seattle one Sunday at a busy mall and I was in one particular clothing store that was pretty packed. The manager got into a shouting match with some girls she suspected of shoplifting (they had been complaining about the long lineup or something) and she very loudly ordered them to get out of her store, and then called mall security. She wasn't hush hush about it at all. She was not concerned with keeping some modicum of propriety and politeness. I guess I'm too used to being around polite and friendly Canadian folks. I kept thinking "This would never happen in Canada!" Life is so much tamer here.
But for the most part people were friendly enough, but Seattle ain't no NYC. If that's how I found SEATTLE, what in the world will NYC be like? (I've been to NYC but it was only for a day in touristy areas, but I imagine living and working there would be an entirely different experience.)
So what I would like to know is, am I going to get crushed if I don't steel myself, grow thick skin, and lose my Canadian inclination for geniality and adopt a more hardened outlook? New York is also the epicenter of weird people. I mean seriously, apparently New Yorkers find Californians to be too soft. I'm thinking Good God if they're considered soft how am I going to fare as a Vancouverite? (LOL I don't remember who said this but they were trying to illustrate how much more professional & cutthroat people were in LA compared to Vancouver because everyone wore SUITS to work and we were so uber casual here. )
That's just ridiculous.Most Ny'ers I know are as soft as mashed potatoes.
And I have never in 35 years heard a single NY'er complain about Californians or people from anywhere else being "too soft".I have heard a lot of complaining but not about people being too soft.
I think that you're buying into the stereotype of a New Yorker. And, while I do not doubt that there's a grain of truth in some of the old neighborhoods that have not changed in decades, the reality is that NYC is so diverse that you can find any type of person in the city.
People in NYC are very busy, and life moves at a quick pace, but one should not necessarily iterpret that as being rude at all. Just about every New Yorker I know will go out of their way to help someone, be it a lost tourist or a neighbor whom they know as an elevator nod, if they need some assistance. There are some whose behavior is so stereotypically rude, and in my experience, more often than not, they're transplants who are acting the part.
I don't know if you're a "Seinfeld" fan, but there are many episodes that, while a bit exaggerated, do exhibit this phenomenon. One that comes to mind is "The Pledge Drive" episode where Jerry's grandmother has to go to the bank early in the morning. She arrives to find it closed, and is standing in an alley, with a supposedly menacing guy approaching who states that the bank is closed. In the next breath, he then tells her that she needs to go to the main office and ask for a particular manager. That one scene is so very true, since to the outside world, many New Yorkers may appear to be tough, battle-scarred people out to get ahead of you by any means necessary, but in reality, it's the reverse for the majority of people in the city (exclusing poseur transplants and the really rude people).
There are certain "rules" that can aggravate people, such as not making small talk on the subway or bus, and if you do have friends on said transportation, speak softly so that you're not disturbing those around you. Also, people generally do not exchange pleasantries in the elevator, but a polite nod acknowledges a presence, and is the same as walking up to someone and saying "Good Morning, Jane or John. How are you today?" It's just that New Yorkers do it with more efficiency, but the meaning behind it is not to be rude or standoffish at all.
There are millions of people in the city, each of whom has many things to accomplish, hence the reason for the interpersonal efficiency with which one behaves in the city. Toughness and cynicism come from not wanting to be preyed upon by street criminals or scam artists who try to solicit funds for a bogus cause, etc. But, all you need to be is yourself, and not react harshly to the rest of the people around you, though a little toughness can come in handy when dealing with the obvious scam artists. Don't fear New York as being a terrible, awful place, filled with miserable people, since the majority of people perceive the exact opposite.
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All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
Vancouver is a pretty damn dangerous city if you wander into the wrong areas (or show up with U.S. plates on your car...that's pretty much guaranteed to get your car vandalized or attempted break-in). Downtown east side is rampant with drugs, HIV, Hep-C and homeless people looking to kick your ass for 2 bucks so they can buy crack or heroin. I've heard it has the highest concentration of HIV infection in North America (The entire continent!). I actually like Vancouver quite a bit...has a lot going for it, but let's be honest about it not being utopia either.
Point is that while VBC might not move quite as fast as NYC, the worst things likely to happen to you there is getting lost on the subway, pocket picked if you're hanging out in the tourist trap areas like Times Square, or a snotty look from some hipster if you're blocking the sidewalk or not moving fast enough for their liking. Otherwise, NY is one of the safer big cities in the world.
Seattle does have a lot of lowlifes and dirtbags though, now that you mention it. I lived there for almost 10 years when I was a kid all the way through high school so I know pretty well what kind of people that place can breed.
Last edited by UrbanAdventurer; 03-26-2010 at 02:36 PM..
First of all your retail situation could of happened ANYWHERE and I mean anywhere. I worked in retail for my whole educational career and lets just say its usually a rude customer that starts it off. Never will someone be innocently shopping minding their own business and the manager will randomly come over and yell. Nope never. And this was working in OHIO which is the headquarters for sissys.
Yes you do have to thick skin to live here but I think people living everywhere should have thick skin. No one is going to hold your hand through life. Its not happening and its DEFINITELY not happening here. What you may see as nice and polite may actually come across as wimpy and a pushover. If you where confident in your ability to handle things you wouldn't of even asked.
I consider myself a very nice person however if someone gives me incorrect change I'm not going to smile sweetly and walk away. I think NYC is the most "real" city in the country. People are who they are and if you don't like it live somewhere else. I have friends who moved here from small towns who expect an apology from everyone who bumps them on the subway. Thats not gonna happen.
And if you think LA is cut throat come here and work. And regarding wearing suits to work. Depends on the industry.
Come on now. I think you’re exaggerating. Most real New Yorkers wear their hearts on their sleeve and are not nearly as tough or rude as you suggest. What you describe is more like transplants trying to live the incorrect hype of what they perceive NYC people to be like. Come on down here to Bay Ridge if you want to see real New Yorkers!!!
As far as being shoved I will agree with you. It’s a city of what, 8.5M people, what do you expect!!
Come on now. I think you’re exaggerating. Most real New Yorkers wear their hearts on their sleeve and are not nearly as tough or rude as you suggest. What you describe is more like transplants trying to live the incorrect hype of what they perceive NYC people to be like. Come on down here to Bay Ridge if you want to see real New Yorkers!!!
As far as being shoved I will agree with you. It’s a city of what, 8.5M people, what do you expect!!
Im not saying everyone is rude and mean I'm just saying you are not gonna walk down the street and expect everyone waiving and greeting you.
About my thick skin comment i think you need thick skin to live anywhere and most people are wimpy. But thats just me
I wouldn't worry about being tough, but you should worry about being the best at whatever you do. NY is one of the most competitive places in the world and when you come here, be prepared to compete at a very high level for almost everything: jobs, grades, comfort, space, companionship, promotions etc. Maybe some people put on a facade of being rude as a strategy to compete, but it's not necessary. Most real New Yorkers are polite and you won't be out of place if you're polite. That being said, NY isn't Canada - life in general moves at a much, much faster pace, people are more aggressive, work more hours and there is a lot more qualified competition competing for the same things you want. People can be as cutthroat and rude as they want, if they don't have the skills to back it up, it means nothing.
Hey Lovecouture , why are you asking stupid questions about New York City? Why don't you go and .... (just kidding!!!)
Being born and raised here I can tell you it's not all that bad. People aren't necessarily rude it's just very fast paced here and most people go about their day in their own worlds and can tend to shut out their surroundings. It can come across as unfriendliness , but usually if you stop someone with a legitimate reason if you need help most people will help you out.
As for the shoplifting example you used , I find that in New York City things aren't viewed by the popluation at large as black or white , right or wrong , everything is viewed in shades of gray. When people break rules or certain laws some people see it simply that a law or rule was broken and the person should be punished and that's it. Others try to rationalize or explain away the wrong behavior. In Canada , or in Vancouver , I'd imagine if someone was caught shoplifting people will view it as what was done by the shoplifiter was wrong , they'll support the police or security in their apprehension of the thief and that's it. In NYC , there is a small but loud portion of the population that will come to the shoplifters defense with the mentality that it's not a big deal , all they were doing is shoplifting , they didn't kill anyone ... the store can afford the loss what's the problem ... if it's a minority being apprehended sometimes racial feelings will enter the situation by those watching , etc.
I operate subway trains for a living here and here is a perfect example of what I'm saying : It's against the rules to play music without a permit and solicit money on the train for it. If I have a packed train and someone gets on with a guitar and starts playing and asking for money half the passengers will be super annoyed , the other half will get into the music and enjoy it. If I open the motormans cab door and insist the guy with the guitar knock it off , half the people will be in support of my action , , the other half will percieve that I'm overstepping my authority and being a bully. That's the New York mentality , for good or bad.
On a side note , I'm one of about maybe 6 or 7 people in the city of New York (slight exaggeration ) that used to actually play ice hockey ... I was a big N.Y.Rangers fan back in the day. I heard when we beat you guys for the cup back in '94 that the city of Vancouver rioted (LOL ) ... so you have your share od craziness up there too , eh?
I'm from Florida, and I'm about as soft as they get, and after 7 months of living in Manhattan I'm pretty much just as nice as ever lol. It's not like everyone walks around ready to pounce on anyone who gets in their way. Although you should always be aware of who's around you (that's a good thing in any situation anywhere). Also, the fast pace can harden you in the sense that you may forget your manners- when I went home to FL a couple months ago I darted through a crowd to get into a Wal-Mart and kind of cut someone off. I didn't even realize that was "rude" until my friend pointed it out to me (I guess I should have stopped to let them by). It's rare that someone stops to let you by on the street in NYC. You just find a way around them.
I don't know, I just don't encounter many rude, tough people. Mostly people keep to themselves.
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). Downtown east side is rampant with drugs, HIV, Hep-C and homeless people looking to kick your ass for 2 bucks so they can buy crack or heroin. I've heard it has the highest concentration of HIV infection in North America (The entire continent!). I actually like Vancouver quite a bit...has a lot going for it, but let's be honest about it not being utopia either.
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