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If what you say is true, then again, drop the act. Why would you inject anti-gun hyperbole into the conversation? No one here mentioned ridiculous extremes such as nuclear bombs, guns at the ready, or French fry shootings except for you. All three are common illustrations of the intentional misrepresentations used by liberals to negatively portray law-abiding gun owners. Don't use them and you'll get a much better response from me.
There's no act and its not hyperbole. I'm genuinely trying to figure out where how people interpret the constitution. A strict interpretation means that you can own any weapon you want, and I'd like to know where people draw the line, and if there is a line, why?
Can you walk into a bank with a rocket launcher?
We had a scenario where gun nuts converged on a Nevada ranch with hundreds of guns pointed at fellow citizens very recently. So, clearly "guns at the ready" is not far fetched scenario and I don't agree with the direct that gun laws are going in the US. Sorry if that doesn't fit in your worldview.
I don't know Pruzhany, I kind of prefer the taste of "Freedom".
Oh, I enjoy my freedom too now. A few years after the 2008 market failure I picked up last jump to a home with 45 acres. There is no way I would give up that much freedom for the relatively small amount I paid for it and still be within 30 minutes of whatever I needed. At 20+ yrs down south there isn't much I miss in NYC and I was just there over the weekend. Once one is away from NYC for long enough, so many little things actually bother one when they go back.
"You're making a lot of assumptions about me, which is really uncalled for since you don't know me."
You have certainly made a lot of assumptions about us.
Quote:
"The constitution makes no reference to guns having to be in a holster. No one was injured by me walking into a bank with a gun in my hand. What gives us the right to make that determination?"
No one in their right mind walks into an establishment with an unholstered gun in their hand. Besides it's illegal at least here in "Pro Gun" Arizona, it's called "brandishing", you can be arrested for it. The "Constitution" has nothing to do with it.
Quote:
"It's called common sense. I take common sense to a different level than most rabid gun nuts. Such as not bringing a gun into a bar. Call me crazy but guns and alcohol don't mix. BTW, I'm not saying that you are a rabid gun nut (obviously I need to explain this because Airborneguy seems to be taking this personally). I'm speaking in a general sense."
When you use terminology such as "rabid gun nuts" it makes me wonder whether your claim to be a gun owner is true. This is a term most used by those who are flat out opposed to the civilian ownership of firearms. I agree guns and alcohol don't mix, but neither does alcohol and cars, most people drive to a bar and usually have more than one. I would also venture to say that excessive alcohol abuse is a major cause of most of societies problems. Most bars at least in Arizona do not allow firearms on the premises it's up to the individual proprietor. It is already illegal in Arizona to be drinking in any of these establishments including restaurants while in the possession of a firearm, not even one drink.
Quote:
"Most constitutionalists believe that a crime has only been committed if there is an injured party."
In most states deadly physical force can be used if the potential victim reasonably believes that their life or the life of another innocent person is in immediate danger. Arizona is a "stand your ground state". You do not have to wait to be killed or gravely injured before you can react. That's just ludicrous! "Constitutionalists"? You mean "Prohibitionists".
Quote:
" There are plenty of centrists and gun owners that feel that laws like the one in Georgia go too far."
Anyone, anytime and at anyplace can become a victim of a crime. With very few exceptions, I have absolutely no problems with law abiding citizens being able to carry firearms wherever and whenever they go about their daily business.
I am curious as to why people wish to leave NY in massive droves other then the obvious that NYC is expensive.
Not sure how this became about guns however I support both arguments. Do law abiding citizens have the right to own a gun? Yes I believe they do. Should civilians be in possession of Military style tactical weapons? No they should not.
Back on topic, why do people really wNt to leave New York, the state, it's obvious why they would want to leave the city.
"Can you walk into a bank with a rocket launcher?"
My God! No one here is talking about rocket launchers except you. A rocket launcher would be a terrible choice for a personal self defense weapon. Scalia did address it in the Heller vs DC decision.
Quote:
"Obviously the amendment does not apply to arms that can not be hand carried--It's to keep and 'bear' so it doesn't apply to cannons. But I suppose there are hand held rocket launchers that can bring down airplanes, that will have to be decided."-- "The 2nd Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding."--- Antonin Scalia (Heller vs DC) www.law.cornell.edu/suplt
"Not sure how this became about guns however I support both arguments. Do law abiding citizens have the right to own a gun? Yes I believe they do. Should civilians be in possession of Military style tactical weapons? No they should not."
Sometimes one thing leads to another, gun control laws in New York State are down right oppressive to some including yours truly. It is just one of the many reasons that I moved out. Cost of living, the political situation at least for me, neighborhood becoming overrun by illegal immigrants, constantly picking up litter in front of my house, drug dealing in the neighborhood, vehicles flying up and down the street blasting out noise that would shake your house of it's foundation are but a few more.
Quote:
"Rocket propelled grenades and anti tank missiles. No wonder people want to move out of New York"
I don't think so, it's difficult enough getting a pistol permit there, that is if you do it lawfully. Criminals can get ahold of anything, including pressure cookers.
You have certainly made a lot of assumptions about us.
No one in their right mind walks into an establishment with an unholstered gun in their hand. Besides it's illegal at least here in "Pro Gun" Arizona, it's called "brandishing", you can be arrested for it. The "Constitution" has nothing to do with it.
When you use terminology such as "rabid gun nuts" it makes me wonder whether your claim to be a gun owner is true. This is a term most used by those who are flat out opposed to the civilian ownership of firearms. I agree guns and alcohol don't mix, but neither does alcohol and cars, most people drive to a bar and usually have more than one. I would also venture to say that excessive alcohol abuse is a major cause of most of societies problems. Most bars at least in Arizona do not allow firearms on the premises it's up to the individual proprietor. It is already illegal in Arizona to be drinking in any of these establishments including restaurants while in the possession of a firearm, not even one drink.
In most states deadly physical force can be used if the potential victim reasonably believes that their life or the life of another innocent person is in immediate danger. Arizona is a "stand your ground state". You do not have to wait to be killed or gravely injured before you can react. That's just ludicrous! "Constitutionalists"? You mean "Prohibitionists".
Anyone, anytime and at anyplace can become a victim of a crime. With very few exceptions, I have absolutely no problems with law abiding citizens being able to carry firearms wherever and whenever they go about their daily business.
We don't seem to be getting anywhere. Both of you are taking this personally when I never made a single assumption about either of you, but plenty were made about me (liberal). Then again, most Fox News talking points seem to come from a position of anger rather than thoughtful discussion. I don't follow a particular party line but on this issue perhaps I'm "liberal". I interpret the constitution differently so there isn't much else to discuss.
I don't understand the arbitrary lines drawn on what arms are constitutionally allowed and which ones aren't. Handgun fine, but Uzi is not. Hand grenades? Who knows? None of these guns existed in 1791 so I don't get the interpretation. It seems arbitrary to me. I'm not asking about someone being in their "right mind" because that's a subjective term.
Freedom to me means that I'm free from illegal search and seizure, free in my papers, free to travel unimpeded by police, free to burn natural herbs and inhale the smoke, free to enjoy a beach or a forest or a lake without restrictions.
Not that it matters but I own a Mossberg 500 12ga for home defense mostly (I have taken it with me into bear country) and a Walther Nighthawk .177 just for plinking. Anyway, good night.
The Second Amendment was constructed to allow for successful revolution if deemed necessary by the population. Similar laws existed in England prior to the colonization of the states for the same reasons and were used as inspiration.
It has only been morphed into the thought of self-defense as a side effect. Not a bad thing, just not the original reasons for it. You actually would probably need a rocket launcher for successful revolution, but wouldn't need it for self-defense, necessarily. So how do you solve that dilemma? Maybe organizations like the NRA should be stock piling in secure storage for the revolution 150 years from now...
The gun topic will never go away. But reasonable discussion can occur when EVIDENCE is presented, not anecdotes and misconceptions. I'm not a gun nut, I do support gun rights, but both sides need to stop believing pundits on TV and go to the library.
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