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I'm planning to buy a small piece of land in the Catskills but I'm trying to get an idea of the current social atmosphere up there before I do.
Are the Catskills overrun by conservatives and other potentially loud and nasty people? Not trying to offend anyone but I've already had some weird encounters up there and am trying to understand why. Maybe it's not political. Maybe it's something else.
Older people from where I live tell me not to buy up there but I, up until recently, I've always brushed them off as scared or conservatives who just don't understand the area.
However, my few encounters with people there have been either over the top in your face or creepily avoidant as if suspicious. I've encountered neighbors yelling out car windows trying to discourage me purchasing land while I was viewing it. And real estate agents that have been either nasty or weird acting and standoffish. At one point I suspected a local was trailing me in their car but veered away when I accidentally drove toward a municipal area.
I was all excited to get a place up there but now I'm hesitating.
So what's going on up there in your estimation? Cabin fever? What are the real estate agencies and neighborhoods to avoid? Do any of them racial profile or play favorites with any types of people? What's the social atmosphere like up there?
I'm withholding my ethnicity and state of origin (let's say tri-state area) for obvious reasons so I'm just asking how they deal with a spectrum of outsiders, in general, up there before I start looking again. I will say I'm a single male so maybe they view us suspiciously up there?
Thanks.
Last edited by Shankapotomus; 03-20-2016 at 06:11 AM..
New Paltz comes to mind right away. If you don't mind the foothills, perhaps Oneonta. Ellenville, Monticello, Liberty, Fallsburg and to a lesser degree, Livingston Manor are places with decent to good degree of racial/cultural diversity, but I don't know if I would say if they are places to avoid "conservatives". Delhi is a college town and may be another option. Margaretville is another place that may worth a look.
I'm kind of surprised that you would find that kind of reception in Upstate NY. My experience here in the western part of New York is that most conservatives here have a fairly strong libertarian streak, so even if they don't like something about you, they aren't going to say/do anything. That's not to say that you wouldn't run into somebody who didn't like the idea of somebody buying a property he/she thought should be theirs (I knew a couple of people who had this problem buying country property -- long story), but it would be a personal thing and not a general one.
Maybe they just don't like the idea of Downstaters buying property in their area. That's a pretty common prejudice in Upstate ... and I imagine that it's strongest in the rural areas fairly close to NYC.
Speaking frankly, (but trying hard to avoid rancor) an awful lot of your posts convey the impression that you subscribe to a very divergent set of views, yet -- like a lot of self-proclaimed "progressives", view those beliefs as a doctrine of sorts, and that you project that attitude toward anyone who doesn't agree with your self-defined "enlightenment". You seem eager to classify anyone not in basic agreement as "conservative" or "right-wing" -- and demonize them.
I sincerely hope you're not a faux "educator" using your position as a bully-pulpit to peddle your beliefs among the young and impressionable, but the screen-name "shankapotamus".and your profile, tend to convey that impression.
You have every right to your opinion, but when you become too outspoken, and too soon, and especially if you stereotype someone before you get to know them, you are likely to be met with an equally defensive response.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-20-2016 at 08:53 AM..
Maybe they just don't like the idea of Downstaters buying property in their area. That's a pretty common prejudice in Upstate ... and I imagine that it's strongest in the rural areas fairly close to NYC.
That's what I'm leaning toward as I've seen posts on city data made by upstaters raving against the newly relocated ruining everything.
Also, although I'm very liberal, I can have a conservative appearance/vibe (if there is such a thing) so maybe it's liberals up there who I'm making nervous? Nothing a conversation can't resolve, though.
Thanks!
Speaking frankly, (but trying hard to avoid rancor) an awful lot of your posts convey the impression that you subscribe to a very doctrinal set of views, and that you project that attitude toward anyone who doesn't agree with your self-defined "enlightenment". You seem eager to classify anyone not in basic agreement as "conservative" or "right-wing" -- and demonize them.
You have every right to your opinion, but when you become too outspoken, and too soon, and especially if you stereotype someone before you get to know them, you are likely to be met with an equally defensive response.
You describe yourself as a "Libertarian Curmudgeon".
I'm in western NY and I find it exactly as Linda stated. In fact, it's very rare I find any place where people get in your face with politics... I think much of what you find is as much based on your own actions. I steer clear of politics (& religion) in person with anyone unless I know the people very well... otherwise you set yourself up for trouble.
You describe yourself as a "Libertarian Curmudgeon".
Stone. Glass. House.
I arrived at my views only after a lot of reading, study, and exposure to the world beyond the 98%-white, 90%-Protestant and 75% German-surnamed community in which I grew up; some of them have mellowed and softened as the result of exposure to other points of view. That, and the recognition that what happens in real life can't always be run "by the book".
But unlike the Absolutely Politically Correct, I am not seeking access to the machinery of government (which is really nothing more than a monopoly on the legalized use of coercion) to force a particular set of values on anyone else.
That is the most important difference between a libertarian and a "progressive"; the latter tend to slide toward crypto-Fascism if their power and influence grows.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-20-2016 at 09:52 AM..
Speaking frankly, (but trying hard to avoid rancor) an awful lot of your posts convey the impression that you subscribe to a very divergent set of views, yet -- like a lot of self-proclaimed "progressives", view those beliefs as a doctrine of sorts, and that you project that attitude toward anyone who doesn't agree with your self-defined "enlightenment". You seem eager to classify anyone not in basic agreement as "conservative" or "right-wing" -- and demonize them.
I sincerely hope you're not a faux "educator" using your position as a bully-pulpit to peddle your beliefs among the young and impressionable, but the screen-name "shankapotamus".and your profile, tend to convey that impression.
You have every right to your opinion, but when you become too outspoken, and too soon, and especially if you stereotype someone before you get to know them, you are likely to be met with an equally defensive response.
I've seen a lot of conservatives that I instantly like for their good-naturedness and humility. But this thread is about my reaction to actual instances I'm trying to explain and my concerns for their possible reactions to liberals. I don't attack people for being conservative, however, I am not naive enough to think they would be perfectly welcoming to me if we are not politically compatible.
I have found that many in the Catskills simply chafe at flat-landers moving in. They, like most people, are usually happy with the way things are. Folks from downstate and the city often move in and want to change things. Living next to the farm seems so nice until you find out what a dairy operation actually smells like... or the sound of tractors working a field early in the morning. Then, the newcomers want to "improve" the community by making it more like the city/suburbs they came from.
It is a different lifestyle up there. In the summer you can hear gunfire from people doing target practice. These people grew up with guns and hunting. Then, "city" people move in down the road and complain about the "scary rednecks with guns." I have seen it happen.
Many long-time locals I know were in favor of fracking. They saw it as a way to provide an economic boost to a depressed area. The "newcomers" from downstate were against fracking because they wanted to keep the area "pristine." While this particular debate has largely settled along political lines, it does illustrate some of the differences in thinking between the two groups.
Yes, people in those rural areas tend to vote "R" over "D." More than a few local stores have a "countdown" timer on the counter to show how much time until Obama is out of office. Still, I have never had a political discussion with anyone up there. They don't look to start political arguments and seem to have better things to do with their time.
I don't think the "problem" is what row you prefer in the voting booth. The problem is how you adapt to the local culture and lifestyle. If your attitude seems to project a feeling of superiority (I was a corporate VP, not a lowly farmer!) or you have a problem with things like hunting, you will have a harder time fitting in.
There are some areas that are a bit different. Some Catskill towns are enclaves of aging hippies (for lack of a better description) which I understand to be a bit more on the "liberal" side than other areas. I prefer burgers over kale and tofu, so I tend to avoid those towns.
If you are looking to buy a small piece of land as a second/vacation home, none of this should be an issue. You won't really be interacting with the neighbors much (especially considering distance in the more rural areas). If you want to be around people with similar backgrounds, take a look at some of the lake communities in Sullivan county. All vacation homes owned by people from out of the area.
If you plan to move there as a permanent resident and make friends, that shouldn't be a problem either... unless you have a problem with their way of life and expect them to change for you. You need to adapt to the local way. If someone moved into the NYC apartment next to you and brought a dairy cow and two chickens, you would probably have an issue with that. That works two ways.
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Nothing a conversation can't resolve, though. 
