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If we can't separate, how about different laws for upstate? They already do that now. For instance the minimum wage law is different for upstate and NYC, and there are others.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Couldn't read it sadly, I refuse to turn off my ad blocker.
That said, I agree with JWRocks. There needs to be a severe divide in laws for upstate counties from NYC. If we can;t be two states, then downstate law makers need to be a LOT more considerate of rural and small town (and moderate/conservative) NY.
Maybe we should break new ground and elect two governors. NYC can keep Cuomo, the egotistical dumpster fire who thinks NY is his own personal property and that conservatives are not welcome here, and upstate can elect its own jerkwad.
Edit: Downstate gets to keep Ithaca/Cornell as an exclave.
NYC would have to buy power and water from the upper state, which I think would be hilarious. NYC-based politicians baked in some of the screw over of Upstate when the power projects were built at Niagara and the St. Lawrence.
If I were in charge of the new, upper state, I'd charge top rates for power and water, NYC would have no choice.
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NYC owns the watershed and the infrastructure that delivers the water to the city. Even if there was a separation these are legal binding contracts/deeds and a new state can not claim emanate domain and confiscate them. Power is provided to the collective grid and federal regulations would prevent the price gouging you mentioned, that has to be applied at the local level by Con-Ed......
NYC gets the bulk of her power from generating plants within her region, Niagra-Mowhawk was owned by National Grid but is now owned by a NYC Based company.
"They distribute electricity in the northeastern US to approximately 3.3 million customers and gas in upstate New York to around 565,000 customers.
On March 13th of 2013, National Grid sold all of its American operations to The Blackstone Group, an American private equity company based in New York City, New York."
So I guess all your plans of squeezing NYC won't happen, of course a NYC company owns the company that feeds all of upstate......
If we can't separate, how about different laws for upstate? They already do that now. For instance the minimum wage law is different for upstate and NYC, and there are others.
Why just Westchester and Rockland? The NYC metropolitan area as an economy and by commuters / transit resources goes significantly further up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWRocks
If we can't separate, how about different laws for upstate? They already do that now. For instance the minimum wage law is different for upstate and NYC, and there are others.
This can be reasonable especially when it comes to economic policies / laws.
A split itself isn't necessary, but the incentive to leverage tax policies with Albany having an eye on the NYC metropolitan area in order to have more for state coffers to award and kickstart programs elsewhere is detrimental in a lot of ways. NYC and its metropolitan area loses out from having wealth generated there spent elsewhere when there are a lot of improvements, especially in terms of infrastructure, that it needs. Upstate loses out, despite the money infusion, due to economic policies that makes little economic sense for their regions. It's not exactly dire, but it's also not great.
One thing that can be useful even within the current framework is to essentially expand the job market from the NYC metropolitan area. Improving rail transit to Buffalo could have done that as the string of cities from Buffalo to Rochester to Syracuse to Utica/Rome to Albany and down to the Mid-Hudson and then NYC are potentially a good set for pairs of routes to economically link up parts. Another is to extend the reach of Metro-North significantly especially west of the Hudson. You already see new businesses and population growth going to places out of rail reach from NYC but still making these economic connections such as Kingston, so it makes sense to cement the connection with actual frequent rail infrastructure. They did build that new Tappan Zee with the ability to carry rail, but then didn't actually put rail in. That's exciting.
New York State became the wealthiest and most powerful state in the US because of the closely linked economies of Upstate and Downstate. This can still be the case where the two actually augment each other. Policies like the Excelsior scholarship move towards that, but the awkward state-directed choosing of specific incredibly expensive propping up of a company or initiative here and there, especially in light of the corruption and pretty meagre returns on investment, seems definitely not to be the way. A focus on infrastructure and education as economic force multipliers underlining the entire marketplace and workforce rather than a select few companies instead would seem to make a lot more sense.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-04-2019 at 10:48 AM..
Where would NYC get its water from? Sold to NYC by Upstate? I don't see that happening. I think it would be a disaster for both areas.
Believe me, contrary to my current location, I can’t stand the city and would move to a new state of upstate immediately. That said, NYC doesn’t buy water from upstate. It owns the reservoirs.
NYC owns the watershed and the infrastructure that delivers the water to the city. Even if there was a separation these are legal binding contracts/deeds and a new state can not claim emanate domain and confiscate them. Power is provided to the collective grid and federal regulations would prevent the price gouging you mentioned, that has to be applied at the local level by Con-Ed......
NYC gets the bulk of her power from generating plants within her region, Niagra-Mowhawk was owned by National Grid but is now owned by a NYC Based company.
"They distribute electricity in the northeastern US to approximately 3.3 million customers and gas in upstate New York to around 565,000 customers.
On March 13th of 2013, National Grid sold all of its American operations to The Blackstone Group, an American private equity company based in New York City, New York."
So I guess all your plans of squeezing NYC won't happen, of course a NYC company owns the company that feeds all of upstate......
This subject just came up on a different thread (I think in the Connecticut forum). States are sovereign within their borders. They can create, expand, contract or even abolish cities, towns and counties within their borders. Incredibly as it seems, that means the state could abolish New York City or separate it into 5 or more separate cities/boroughs. Not a bad idea btw.
Or the state just could literally take away New York City's lands in the Catskills. While this would be difficult because the city would oppose it, there are ways it could be done. For instance, it could be sweetened by the promise of say, billions of additional dollars of state money for the city schools. So the city would oppose it but the people would be for it. Because of politics the people will get the schools but the city looses its lands in the Catskills.
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