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Many people think it is north of the Bronx. Others say above Westchester. Is Rockland upstate? What about Putnam, Dutchess, and Orange? I think the line is once you leave the NY metro, which is when you leave Dutchess or Orange County.
Depends who you ask, when I grew up you either lived in the city, on the island or upstate. Anything north of the Bronx was considered upstate...
Yeah. That seems to be a typical opinion, but I really feel that least Westchester and Rockland Counties are Downstate. Putnam could be argued as upstate, but it probably isn't.
I’ve even seen where Ulster and Sullivan counties are viewed as going either way. For instance, when Buffalo Business First does their Upstate school rankings, the schools in those counties aren’t included. Yet, if you ask people from those counties, you are likely to get many that say that they live Upstate.
The color divisions of this map coincides with my opinion on the matter as regards downstate vs upstate, with the red counties being downstate and the others being upstate. I also happen to be one of those that consider the east-west divide of the state to actually be more significant, but that is another topic.
The Catskills counties (less Delaware and Greene), I feel have inextricable ties, economic and social, to the lower and mid Hudson Valley, especially places like New Paltz, Kingston, etc., and NYC.
Some people assume that that means the lifestyle is similar or personalitys and attitudes, but I do not argue that that is the case (because it certainly is not), nor is it germane to my personal definition of downstate which has more to do with intrastate economics and movements of people.
The population of the Catskills has been seeded over and over by people from points south.
Part of the confusion is that the term "upstate" has different meanings depending on context. For instance, people who live in NYC may use it as a generic term for Westchester and Rockland, since such area does not have a well worn name like Nassau and Suffolk do ("Long Island"). Not for one second would these people think that Westchester and Rockland are outside the Metropolitan NY area, nor would they consider their use of the word the same as when using it to describe other far away parts of the state. The term "Hudson Valley" has never caught on in terms of regular speech. For instance, a NYC cop looking to move to the suburbs may say "I have to choose between Long Island and upstate". This does not mean he is moving to Lake Placid. The same guy may say "I am going skiing upstate this weekend". This does not mean he is hitting a hill in Yonkers. As with many other words in the English language, it has multiple means depending on context.
ABQConvict makes some good points. Lifestyles, personalities and attitudes need not be the same as the Bronx for an area to be considered downstate. If this were true, than much of Long Island would need to be excluded from Metropolitan NY. Eastern Suffolk is sleepy, less-NYish, touristy, and populated by far less people commuting to Manhattan. Much of Orange, Sullivan, Ulster and Northern Dutchess are the same, and therefore, should be considered downstate if all of Suffolk is also. For instance, Poughkeepsie I think is closer to Manhattan than Riverhead, and there is still more of LI east of Riverhead. If Riverhead is downstate, than so must be Poughkeepsie.
Most of SW Dutchess (Poughkeepsie and below) is rather dense suburbia with every store and chain known to mankind located there. This area is undeniably downstate imo. Makes it easier to include nearby counties.
Part of the confusion is that the term "upstate" has different meanings depending on context. For instance, people who live in NYC may use it as a generic term for Westchester and Rockland, since such area does not have a well worn name like Nassau and Suffolk do ("Long Island"). Not for one second would these people think that Westchester and Rockland are outside the Metropolitan NY area, nor would they consider their use of the word the same as when using it to describe other far away parts of the state. The term "Hudson Valley" has never caught on in terms of regular speech. For instance, a NYC cop looking to move to the suburbs may say "I have to choose between Long Island and upstate". This does not mean he is moving to Lake Placid. The same guy may say "I am going skiing upstate this weekend". This does not mean he is hitting a hill in Yonkers. As with many other words in the English language, it has multiple means depending on context.
ABQConvict makes some good points. Lifestyles, personalities and attitudes need not be the same as the Bronx for an area to be considered downstate. If this were true, than much of Long Island would need to be excluded from Metropolitan NY. Eastern Suffolk is sleepy, less-NYish, touristy, and populated by far less people commuting to Manhattan. Much of Orange, Sullivan, Ulster and Northern Dutchess are the same, and therefore, should be considered downstate if all of Suffolk is also. For instance, Poughkeepsie I think is closer to Manhattan than Riverhead, and there is still more of LI east of Riverhead. If Riverhead is downstate, than so must be Poughkeepsie.
Most of SW Dutchess (Poughkeepsie and below) is rather dense suburbia with every store and chain known to mankind located there. This area is undeniably downstate imo. Makes it easier to include nearby counties.
Downstate is not entirely centered on the city. It is just the lower area of the state, so your logic with Pighkeepsie is odd. I see your point, but I do not agree that is the case. I do, however, think that Poughkeepsie is downstate. I struggle to call Ulster or Sullivan downstate, though.
Your point with the NYC cop is very logical. I have definitely heard that before. They always talk about going to the beach down the shore and skiing upstate and buying a house on Long Island.
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