Another Hot-button topic: Natural Gas Drilling (New York, Binghamton: for sale, leases, lawyer)

[looking4home]

I was alerted to this growing concern by another poster, and so I looked into the situation further. In case you haven't heard what's going on in relation to New York state, there is a huge shale formation deep underground which spans 4 states: NY, PA, WVA, and OH. It's called the Marcellus Shale Distribution. Gas companies say it's one of the largest, most productive sources of natural gas in the country. And since the price of Natural gas has risen considerably during the past few years, and so has the demand for affordable energy, it is now worthwhile to tap this resource. Gas companies are going around to landowners trying to pusuade them to sign leases to let them drill on their land, much in the same way the wind companies have done. The drilling is called "horizontal" because it goes sideways throughout one's property in order to get into the pockets in the shale where the gas is trapped. the counties affectd in NY are mainly in the Southern Tier, but there are some Catskill counties as well, and even up as far as Tompkins and Cayuga, so it has the potential to be quite impactful.

The pro argument for natural gas drilling is basically two-fold: potentially lucrative lease contracts for NY landowners that would help off-set ever-rising property taxes and to supplement incomes. Also, you would be helping the U.S. "walk the walk" regarding energy self-reliance. There has been much made of relying on our own natural resources for our energy consumption, and get us off the dependency on foreign oil. Natural gas has a lot of potential as a multi-purpose energy source that could help us accomplish that goal.

The cons: Drilling was once an extremely expensive way to obtain this resource. Now, because of new methods of drilling combined with higher natural gas prices, it has become worthwhile. But what if it becomes cost-prohibitive again, for various reasons, and the companies pull out? Like the wind turbines, will landowners be left with the ugly, industrial, and dangerous infrastucture on their land to deal with by themselves?

Gas drilling is a very industrial, dirty, and extremely noisy undertaking. It requires huge trucks and equipment, and giant concrete "pads" where the actual drilling equipment is installed. This is obviously unsightly, and not in keeping with the rural landscape or the presence of farming and farm animals.

The drilling uses unbelievable amounts of water and they will get it from sources like lakes, the Delaware River, etc. Will that deplete residents' water availability? likewise, the water that has been used in the gas extraction becomes contaminated, and has the very real potential to contaminate nearby drinking water wells, and soil, affecting farms,crops, etc. There already has been a huge problem with this in other states. The gas companies do not abide by state regulations, and invariably have contaminated the water in states like PA, TX, WY, CO,etc. Plus, natural gas itself can be released to the surface, along with radon, creating untold problems that have not been dealt with before in other states because NY state's concentration of radon is so much higher here than elsewhere. I don't care what the EPA or Clean Water Act says, companies continually violate these rules, and just get a slap on the hand with a fine. Considering the billions to be made, that's a mere annoyance for them and they don't care. And if you think that will stop their polluting practices, then I've got a nice piece of land next to a CAFO that I'd like to sell you!

To me, that's the real issue. At what price do we obtain needed resources? And what good is the money to be made by landowners if your land and wells becomes polluted, and you and your family gets sick? It also has the potential to decrease land values dramatically, as wind turbines did. Who'd want to live next door to a huge drilling project, especially if your not getting any money from it? It just saddens me to see the beauty and unique qualities of upstate NY continually under seige for the sake of profit or progress.

Anyway, that was an overview of the subject, and I'd love to hear from those who have signed leases or have been approached by gas companies.

Let the discussion begin!!!

[Tioga]

This topic has received a lot of attention in the sourthern tier. The local newspaper has done a excellent job in covering this (Binghamton Press). There have been county informational meetings..Chemung, Tioga, Broome. No one in the area should be surprised at this point, over the mention of the gas deposits.

[JustSayNo]

Indeed Looking, you have done your homework well (pun intended!)

This is the latest "Wind Turbine Debate" wink wink in the Southern Tier. Tioga you are 1000% correct-big coverage, a lot more than the turbines, and it is the hot topic all around!

Thanks for posting your finding Looking, an important topic for anyone interested in the area!

Happy Monday all!

[looking4home]

Is it mainly confined to the Southern Tier counties? I dunno...I saw a home for sale in Chenango county that said in its description that it had no gas leases. That's kind of borderline Catskill country. However, there has been some hesitation on lawmakers' part to allow any drilling in the Catskills, near NYC's precious water resources, so I don't know if those counties will not be solicited by the gas salesmen. Since the house for sale claimed it didn't have any gas leases, it obviously is an issue in that area, and that also means these contracts are transferable and binding. Yikes! Landowners better think twice before signing a lease - it might be more difficult to sell their homestead if they ever want to.

[Tioga]

Chenango County is considered just west of the Catskill region, so it falls outside the region of NYC watershed authority(Not 100% sure on that, but close). Which county are you in?

[honeychrome]

The commissioner and the exec. deputy commissioner of the DEC were both on the Capitol Connection a week or so ago, and sadly they were both pretty much 100% behind the drilling, declaring it safe and clean, etc. etc. Claimed water was not an issue because the drilling companies will use 'large tanks' to bring in and later remove water used in the process. Uh huh. And then where does the contaminated water go, I wonder? Still, I think it is going to be very, very difficult for landowners and communities to resist this- from what I've read and heard its pretty much a 'done deal' and there are mechanisms in place for 'eminent domain' style of forced access to hold-outs' land if a certain percentage of land in a given area can be signed up. The best (perhaps only) recourse seems to be to have a strong contract written up by the landowner's lawyer.... and then have enough money to pay for the ensuing fight when the drilling company violates the contract, which they most assuredly will do to some extent.

The Cap. Connection show mentioned above can be found here:

wamc NewsRoom

[looking4home]

Tioga, I'm in California! But I'm originally from Auburn, in Cayuga Co.

Honeychrome, do you live in an area affected by this? Where would you say is the emphasis (for now) in terms of counties/residents being pressured to lease their land? Also, just how lucrative is it? I think it's one thing if you just lease raw land, but if you are living there, it's a whole different story. Although I suppose if pipes are just running underground through your property, maybe there's not that much inconvenience. Until something goes horribly wrong...

It's already documented that these gas companies are polluters, but it seems that we, as a nation, are in a mode now of turning a blind eye to any environmental concern in a desperate race to secure energy sources. It's typically short-sighted, and unless they change the EPA regulations, I see lawsuits on the horizon. Also, you mentioned the trucks bringing in water. Apparently, these trucks are huge and heavy - can you imagine what they will do to rural roads?

[VA Yankee]

Another train of thought on this. Although the equipment during the drilling phase is alot once the well is tapped the remaining well head is not very much. A friend of mine in west florida had natural gas being tapped under his property, the royalties he received each month was more than his regular salary. Just a thought.

[honeychrome]

Looking-
Yes, I'm in Delaware Co. Neighboring landowners have been approached, but so far we haven't. I suspect we just weren't home (we travel a lot for work and to visit family) when the reps came by on their first sweep (where they are taking a shot-in-the-dark hoping to get a quick signature on a contract without a lawyer representing the landowner). Maybe the lay of our land makes it a less than ideal well site.

While I sure wouldn't mind getting a nice royalty check and recognize that energy availability is a gigantic issue, I believe safe water is a much, much bigger issue, and the risks posed to the water supply are not being given enough attention. We can survive with much less energy- we cannot survive without clean water, and further, relatively clean and abundant water is, I believe, a far more important asset to NY State (and one that will only become increasingly important and valuable) than this short-term, limited natural gas asset is.

And really, I think the whole trucking in tanks of water thing is a joke- the amount of water needed for this fracturing process is huge. No way are they going to truck it in- they'll use the local supply, and they'll let the post-process contaminated water just flow back into the environment.

[looking4home]

Yes, that's the concern I read about, actually in the Ithaca Journal. I guess the gas salesman had been snooping around Tompkins county, and there was talk about using the water from Cayuga lake. Naturally, there are many who are upset at over this plan, as the Finger Lakes provide so much clean water for a variety of uses, including drinking. Come to think of it, there is some kind of mining or drilling that's already being done in that region, and now I can't think where it was. Hmmm...I'll have to try and find about it. But I remember there was an issue with it because of the run-off it created. Also, it's a "depends who you talk to" situation with the water, because I read the gas companies quoted about how great it would be to use the Delaware River for their water needs.