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I'm quoting this in its entirety because it's one of those posts that deserves to be. This topic is incredibly sensitive, incredibly fraught with pain for anyone with a conscience--and far too delicate to become the subject of an argument with strangers about. The original post argues (and in subsequent development, the original poster continues to explain) an essentially Christian world view. As a Christian, how could I disagree with an essentially Christian argument?
The problem with all essentially Christian philosophy--and I adore the faith's founder--is that it presupposes a degree of maturity and perfection few if any people who trod the planet ever attain. Victories based on one's own view of perfection, if not on the belief one is perfect (the two are different), are pyrrhic--win or lose. They are not victories that can or should be urged anonymously. While the original poster takes great, even severe, pains to parse the original post--and while my faith's founder might just have used the word "retrain" Himself, had he lived in 2014--I personally pale at the thought that *my* example will/should/could EVER retrain anyone. This isn't false modesty.
What troubles me most about this thread is the level of articulation possessed by nearly all posters--keeping in mind that people with less ability to articulate complex situational ethics will almost certainly read the very first post in a very long and complex thread and second-guess themselves, and do themselves great harm.
I don't even get this....how can setting healthy standards of behavior for EVERYONE 'do people great harm?'
It's just a tool in your toolbox. Sounds as if you don't believe people are smart enough to decide this on their own.
OP, I really like a lot of your posts. But you have gotten a lot of feedback about the message they are getting, and I know I have gotten messages about it. Maybe it's time for you to have some introspection about why you are getting this responce. I mean, every time someone says something, you come right back in length. It's exhausting.
Thanks for the feedback, HFB - I appreciate your honesty.
I've also gotten TONS of positive feedback on what I'm stating, via rep comments and private messages, so it's not just my own peculiar ideas or a concept that only resonates positively with me. There have also been positive posts regarding what I'm stating on the thread. Sure there have been dissenting posts as well but I'm OK with that. I wanted to start a conversation and that's what happened.
Speaking of the conversation, if you find it exhausting, you really don't have to continue interacting. I appreciate your comments and respect your opinion - that's the truth. I think it's an important topic and it's good to hear different perspectives, but it's not my goal to stress anyone out or create anxiety.
Thanks for the resource above. I'm considering fading away from my birth family starting these holidays. I have stuck around for purposes of modeling good behavior as a Christian, however, it's come to the point where it's not benefiting anyone. In fact it's damaging and I don't have the stomach for it anymore. My husband is now being pulled into it (psychological abuse), and that's where I draw the line. He isn't happy around them, and he's a gregarious outgoing and loving person who gets along with everyone, so that tells me something. I hate burning bridges so I probably won't make an exit speech (like I've done in the past) but like I said, just fade away...
With my father, I know he suffers being lonely, well he would be lonely with me too. I can't fill that hole he has. But I realized I make him sicker. The last time, not long ago, he got on meds after being injured, his friend talked me into seeing how much better he was. So I agreed to start a phone relationship with him. After a while, I realized it was actually making him sicker. I reminded him of the bad old times. It triggered problems. But it was also too much for me. Even on the phone, it was affecting my mental and physical health. It wasn't good for either of us. I think it sometimes does benefit the person who is being faded out, or cut off, etc.
Thanks for the feedback, HFB - I appreciate your honesty.
I've also gotten TONS of positive feedback on what I'm stating, via rep comments and private messages, so it's not just my own peculiar ideas or a concept that only resonates positively with me. There have also been positive posts regarding what I'm stating on the thread. Sure there have been dissenting posts as well but I'm OK with that. I wanted to start a conversation and that's what happened.
Speaking of the conversation, if you find it exhausting, you really don't have to continue interacting. I appreciate your comments and respect your opinion - that's the truth. I think it's an important topic and it's good to hear different perspectives, but it's not my goal to stress anyone out or create anxiety.
Because you come back so strong on people who disagree, when I saw a good post you would disagree with, I wanted to support them before they got told they are wrong again
I absolutely agree with this! For the life of me, I can't find anything in any of my posts (or others) on this topic that disagrees with this position.
Lol I just gave you some on accident. Was trying to see how many you got.
Still...there are lots of reasons people feel that way. It shouldn't be a contest. I was pointing it out in order to present why this post seems so one sided, but really it's mostly you talking back. It isn't a group convo, for sure
Of course it is. And what you may have inadvertently done here is cause people who have had to make that decision to second guess their choice and rehash their process - which you may say is a good thing, but for some it certainly is not.
Often people are not able to heal from issues caused by toxic people until they have actually removed themselves from the situation. And whether they have issues themselves at that time is not the point. You don't have to be healed/wiser/the better person before you decide. Sometimes that's not possible, nor wise.
I'm not speaking of people who cut people out of their lives precisely because they are a toxic-poor-me person. But of people who may have struggled mightily with it, who have found the courage, and who you are now telling just didn't do as good a job as they could have, didn't try hard enough, didn't fix their own side of the fence, could have done better if they'd just do things the way you do them.
Well for some people getting rid of the environment is paramount, above and beyond fixing one's own self. Especially if minors are involved. And unfortunately they may never be as at peace as they could be. But they did the right thing regardless. I would hate anybody reading this to think they failed at making the right decision, when the decision wasn't really a choice.
For example, did you wait until you'd fixed yourself before you left and set boundaries with your ex husband? I hope not. Your children were more important than doing it the "right" way.
And we're talking truly toxic or completely unmanageable very close relationships, I assume. Otherwise, people come and people go, for all sorts of reasons, and that's just life.
Way I see it, once I have gone through that mighty struggle, I am sooooo utterly done with the person, nothing and no one could shake my resolve. I turn cheeks until I run out of them. Left cheek, right cheek, left buttcheek, right buttcheek. Once you get to that right buttcheek, you realize that you are now staring at, well, my butt, which you are now in an excellent position to kiss.
Way I see it, once I have gone through that mighty struggle, I am sooooo utterly done with the person, nothing and no one could shake my resolve. I turn cheeks until I run out of them. Left cheek, right cheek, left buttcheek, right buttcheek. Once you get to that right buttcheek, you realize that you are now staring at, well, my butt, which you are now in an excellent position to kiss.
I'll repeat what I've stated over and over and over again. I am not advocating keeping abusive behavior going in your life. I am not advocating tolerating truly abusive behavior. Heck, I'm not even advocating tolerating disrespect!
What I AM advocating is becoming a strong, healed person and approaching these old, dysfunctional relationships from THAT perspective. Reconsidering and "revamping" the dynamics, setting healthy boundaries, with consequences that you follow through on if the boundaries are crossed. When WE are no longer dysfunctional, weak, damaged, afraid (fill in the blank), we often find that the whole relationship improves.
Of course, it may not improve at all - or it may not improve immediately (I can almost assure you that it won't improve immediately!) and the other person may or may not ever come around. Or they may "partially" come around. We will find that we still have to tailor our responses, and maintain those boundaries and follow through with the ramifications - and sometimes the relationship just isn't worth the effort. I realize that.
But sometimes it IS worth the effort.
Someone earlier said that my mother is still an abuser. I disagree. My mother does not have the power to abuse me. I don't give her that power. Does she overstep my boundaries on occasion? Yes, she sure does, and when she does, there are ramifications. For instance, yesterday she sent me an email trying to get me involved in a disagreement she has with my dad. I emailed her back and told her that I am not going to get involved in that argument and do not bring it up when I come over. In the past, she would have disregarded that and brought it up the minute I walked in the door - but now she knows that if she does so, I'll just say, "I asked you not to involve me, so I'm leaving now," and I'll just get up and leave.
She may not like it, but she complied - as she does now about 80 percent of the time. The other twenty percent of the time, I have to enforce the ramifications - but the quality time we spent together 80 percent of the time make the extra effort on my part worth it. My mother can be funny, loving, generous, eloquent, and fun to talk to. She is also 75 years old, in poor health, and physically and emotionally fragile. She needs help and will need more help in the future.
It's not like she's attacking me, threatening me, or even causing me to stress out or lose sleep with her "20 percent" shenanigans. People only have as much power as we give them in our lives. She's irritating. But in the past, because I was or felt defenseless from my injured position, she had the ability to wreak havoc on my life and she did so. No longer - and she knows it. I don't know what she was getting out of that in the past - she's mentally ill, and she's not a particularly happy person. I feel sorry for her. But she's my mother, and in spite of her faults, she has also over the years put forth an effort, THROUGH her mental illness, to be a good mother and grandmother. I honestly believe she is a broken person - and I'm not. I can afford to be magnanimous and generous in my dealings with her.
Because you come back so strong on people who disagree, when I saw a good post you would disagree with, I wanted to support them before they got told they are wrong again
I haven't told anyone their position on situations in their life is wrong. I HAVE corrected people when they have misread or misunderstood or misquoted me. And I do have the right to disagree with people on a basic philosophical issue. But I have not once told anyone that they're wrong to cut someone out of their lives or label someone as toxic.
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