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I know this syndrome. This tends to happen to petite women, but also baby-faced women of any height. It can get a lot worse than what you've experienced, when in a professional context, where people think you're a kid, but you're functioning on their advanced level, or better than them (when you have no idea you're way ahead of them). I'm surprised you haven't encountered rudeness or rage from some of your colleagues, who may get irritated that someone who looks like a child has the temerity to discuss issues or make project proposals, that are for seasoned professionals. Maybe after you finish law school and begin practicing law, you'll run into that. A friend of mine who's been practicing law for 15 years said that when she wears her power suit for the courtroom or an important meeting, people tell her she looks like she's wearing her mother's clothes.
There's not much you can do about this. See above as example: if you "dress for success" and wear take-me-seriously business clothes, people think you're a kid trying to impersonate an adult. Try applying makeup to look older? Same problem; you look like a tween experimenting with makeup.
Some women with this problem cultivate a huffy response, indicating they're offended at being taken to be anything less than the accomplished and experienced professional that they are. You know, that cliche "WELL!!!" in an outraged tone, then setting the person straight re: who you are. Others can't bring themselves to go that far, it seems a bit canned and overdone to some, though it does get the point across, and may be the only way, in the final analysis.
Instead of holding everything in from all these incidents and letting it boil inside you, consider letting a little of that annoyance out each time someone's inappropriate with you. Controlled annoyance, to let them know they've really overstepped some boundaries, grossly misjudged you, and offended you. You don't need to be rude, but firmly assertive. In this respect, a few counseling sessions to get some assertiveness training and practice it with some role-playing, might be helpful. Drawing boundaries with these idiots will help you feel effective, instead of frustrated and angry, as you feel now.
So, for ex., next time someone says you're so relaxed going into an exam or presentation, respond firmly, "Actually, I spent all afternoon and evening yesterday preparing, as I always do for this type of thing, and frankly, I'm a bit stressed about it, but I'm hoping for the best." Work on developing polite but firm comebacks. This will give people an opportunity to get to know you better, too, and see you as more multi-dimensional. If they're shocked, so be it. It's their problem, as long as you haven't been rude. Someone feels the need to help you across the street, and can't imagine how you ever survived without their help? Tell them, "Perhaps you misjudged my age, some people do. I'm actually (age), completed university in my teens, and am now preparing for the bar exam. I'm quite capable of crossing the street unassisted, thank you", and walk away. Let them pick their jaw up from the pavement.
Other than that, I don't think therapy is necessary. There's nothing in your behavior, or anything in your appearance that's in your control, that's causing this. (When you finish law school and enter your profession, do practice a businesslike demeanor, though. Women smiling or making collegial jokes in a professional environment tends to backfire horribly). Furthermore, therapists generally aren't onto this issue for women, the lack of what's called "facial maturity". They just spout canned advice about wearing your hair up to look older, or wearing a business suit, and refuse to believe that those strategies don't magically transform you. And btw, people will NOT treat you differently when you're older, unless you actually come to look your age. It's all about perceived age, not real age. Also, people tend to take baby-faced people for simpletons; it's just one of those weird, nonsensical associations.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-19-2014 at 03:22 PM..
OP----I have just the opposite problem than you have. I reached 6'2" tall (my full growth), the summer before I turned 12. By the time I was 16, I was as they say getting a high forehead, and looked at least 25 years old. I was not allowed to run around with kids my age, because everyone thought I was a lot older than their little darlings, but was the youngest in my classes all my life. The ones that would accept me were older, and by the time I was 16 I was going to bars with them, and have never been carded in my life.
I joined the Navy in 1950 as my draft notice was in the post office box, as I felt it was better for them to carry my bed around for me, rather than have to carry it on my back, and sleep in fox holes.
Due to my size, and ability to project confidence and being smarter than most people I was around, from the time I got out of 2 schools one after the other directly out of boot camp, I was put in charge of things. I was assigned jobs, way above my pay grade. I ran complete air terminals for a Navy transport squadron, with my section leaders both out rated me by a couple of rates, in charge of all passengers and cargo operations for planes flying off the base.
When I got out, except for maybe two months total, I was always a manger. I managed retail stores, furniture departments in major department stores, from the age of 24, earning $125,000 or more in today's dollars. I was hired into the corporate world, and within a couple of years I was division sales manager for a major company for everything west of the Mississippi river. In 1972, I went into commercial/investment real estate brokerage and remained in it very successful till I finally retired. I spoke at large professional conferences, and was a regular writer for 2 different professional magazines.
All this because I was tall, and looked the part they hired me for. Looks are deceiving, but people make assumptions.
You on the other hand, look young, and give the feeling you need protected. You are having a hard time being taken serious, due to your size, and appearance. You get flustered and nervous easily.
I can only feel for you, and I am one person that understands how a perception your size and looks give, can make or break you. It was easy for me to be taken serious. On the other hand, it is hard for you to be taken serious. My wife has had the same problem. She is 5'2" tall, and weighed 105 pounds when I met her. She was/is a cute little redhead now pure white after 62 years of marriage.
She was also a license broker. It was a 2 person office handling clients from not only in U.S. but in oil countries, etc.
I ran the sales, and she ran the rest of the office. An example of how people underestimated her like you are getting.
She went to a closing with a client on a large investment property. It was being conducted by a major title/escrow company. The buyer and the seller were there along with the escrow company closer. My wife asked to see the paperwork, and had to insist it be given to her. She went through it, and handed it back to the escrow agent and told her, "These papers are not acceptable. Please get the problems take care of so we can close." The agent asked who she was to tell her the papers were wrong and what her credentials were. My wife said, "I am a real estate broker and have a GRI (Graduate of Realtors Institute). I got my certification as a real estate specialist as a Para Legal (usually in law offices), with the highest grades in the class for the two semesters of the course. I do know when papers are right, and when they are wrong. Ask Jan (the title/escrow company manager) and see what she says.
She turned to a long time real estate broker representing the seller and asked his opinion. His answer was, "I am no where near as qualified as this lady so ask Jan". She did and Jan looked the papers over and told her which Irene could hear, "This set of papers, would not allow us to even put title insurance on the property, and would leave us wide open to be sued. " When she asked what she should do, was told to do what ever my wife said, as my was the principal trainer for the county wide real estate closers association which my wife was a founder, and had trained Jan. She was told, she was not near as knowledgeable as my wife. My wife spent 3 hours redoing the papers, and Jan would not even look at them telling the person handling the paperwork said if my wife said they were good, there was no reason for Jan to inspect them.
Like you, my wife looks small and innocent, a little girl feeling when people meet her, and only after they realize how smart she is, do they start looking at her with respect. You have to learn to accept the fact people really underestimate you, and learn to use this to your advantage. You will find when they are underestimating you in your professional life, you are the one with the advantage going your way. In your chosen profession, it allows you to sneak up on the other parties involved, and when you lower the boom you will win, and they will go away shocked just as my wife kept winning. They will think you will be easy to win against, and when you hit them hard they will find they lost and you will have won, and they will have a hard time understanding what happened. They will usufally be less prepared going against that little air head, and you will have an advantage.
I have seen numerous very smart women in the business world, that were small and cute and everyone wanted to help and defend them, until they twisted the knife and won the argument, got the big order, or won a lawsuit, and their opponent would not even know what happened.
I can tell you from being in the business world all my life, that what you consider a handicap now, can be turned into an unfair advantage in the future. You can't change your size, cuteness, or how people look at you. What you can do is accept it, and learn to use it to your advantage. My advantage has always been my appearance and size, coupled with a type A personality, and I could not change this perception of me. It put me on top, and made me a lot of money.
You can learn to use what you consider a problem, and can have an advantage if I was going against you in business, or a court room some people would call me a monster for not treating you nice, and be there wanting to help you. Lady you don't have a problem, you have a great advantage that you just have not learned to use yet.
OP----I have just the opposite problem than you have. I reached 6'2" tall (my full growth), the summer before I turned 12. By the time I was 16, I was as they say getting a high forehead, and looked at least 25 years old. I was not allowed to run around with kids my age, because everyone thought I was a lot older than their little darlings, but was the youngest in my classes all my life. The ones that would accept me were older, and by the time I was 16 I was going to bars with them, and have never been carded in my life.
I joined the Navy in 1950 as my draft notice was in the post office box, as I felt it was better for them to carry my bed around for me, rather than have to carry it on my back, and sleep in fox holes.
Due to my size, and ability to project confidence and being smarter than most people I was around, from the time I got out of 2 schools one after the other directly out of boot camp, I was put in charge of things. I was assigned jobs, way above my pay grade. I ran complete air terminals for a Navy transport squadron, with my section leaders both out rated me by a couple of rates, in charge of all passengers and cargo operations for planes flying off the base.
When I got out, except for maybe two months total, I was always a manger. I managed retail stores, furniture departments in major department stores, from the age of 24, earning $125,000 or more in today's dollars. I was hired into the corporate world, and within a couple of years I was division sales manager for a major company for everything west of the Mississippi river. In 1972, I went into commercial/investment real estate brokerage and remained in it very successful till I finally retired. I spoke at large professional conferences, and was a regular writer for 2 different professional magazines.
All this because I was tall, and looked the part they hired me for. Looks are deceiving, but people make assumptions.
You on the other hand, look young, and give the feeling you need protected. You are having a hard time being taken serious, due to your size, and appearance. You get flustered and nervous easily.
I can only feel for you, and I am one person that understands how a perception your size and looks give, can make or break you. It was easy for me to be taken serious. On the other hand, it is hard for you to be taken serious. My wife has had the same problem. She is 5'2" tall, and weighed 105 pounds when I met her. She was/is a cute little redhead now pure white after 62 years of marriage.
She was also a license broker. It was a 2 person office handling clients from not only in U.S. but in oil countries, etc.
I ran the sales, and she ran the rest of the office. An example of how people underestimated her like you are getting.
She went to a closing with a client on a large investment property. It was being conducted by a major title/escrow company. The buyer and the seller were there along with the escrow company closer. My wife asked to see the paperwork, and had to insist it be given to her. She went through it, and handed it back to the escrow agent and told her, "These papers are not acceptable. Please get the problems take care of so we can close." The agent asked who she was to tell her the papers were wrong and what her credentials were. My wife said, "I am a real estate broker and have a GRI (Graduate of Realtors Institute). I got my certification as a real estate specialist as a Para Legal (usually in law offices), with the highest grades in the class for the two semesters of the course. I do know when papers are right, and when they are wrong. Ask Jan (the title/escrow company manager) and see what she says.
She turned to a long time real estate broker representing the seller and asked his opinion. His answer was, "I am no where near as qualified as this lady so ask Jan". She did and Jan looked the papers over and told her which Irene could hear, "This set of papers, would not allow us to even put title insurance on the property, and would leave us wide open to be sued. " When she asked what she should do, was told to do what ever my wife said, as my was the principal trainer for the county wide real estate closers association which my wife was a founder, and had trained Jan. She was told, she was not near as knowledgeable as my wife. My wife spent 3 hours redoing the papers, and Jan would not even look at them telling the person handling the paperwork said if my wife said they were good, there was no reason for Jan to inspect them.
Like you, my wife looks small and innocent, a little girl feeling when people meet her, and only after they realize how smart she is, do they start looking at her with respect. You have to learn to accept the fact people really underestimate you, and learn to use this to your advantage. You will find when they are underestimating you in your professional life, you are the one with the advantage going your way. In your chosen profession, it allows you to sneak up on the other parties involved, and when you lower the boom you will win, and they will go away shocked just as my wife kept winning. They will think you will be easy to win against, and when you hit them hard they will find they lost and you will have won, and they will have a hard time understanding what happened. They will usufally be less prepared going against that little air head, and you will have an advantage.
I have seen numerous very smart women in the business world, that were small and cute and everyone wanted to help and defend them, until they twisted the knife and won the argument, got the big order, or won a lawsuit, and their opponent would not even know what happened.
I can tell you from being in the business world all my life, that what you consider a handicap now, can be turned into an unfair advantage in the future. You can't change your size, cuteness, or how people look at you. What you can do is accept it, and learn to use it to your advantage. My advantage has always been my appearance and size, coupled with a type A personality, and I could not change this perception of me. It put me on top, and made me a lot of money.
You can learn to use what you consider a problem, and can have an advantage if I was going against you in business, or a court room some people would call me a monster for not treating you nice, and be there wanting to help you. Lady you don't have a problem, you have a great advantage that you just have not learned to use yet.
Best post EVER on this topic!
Still, there will be situations where you don't even get the opportunity to propose a project, discuss a contract, or collaborate with a peer, because people take one look at you and write you off, and walk away. (Or worse: become verbally abusive because they think you deceived them and wasted their time.) Or the person sent to meet with you will go back to their HQ and say you never showed up, because they didn't recognize the highschool student they saw in the lobby as the adult professional they were supposed to meet. Really weird things can happen.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-19-2014 at 07:40 PM..
I have a bit of an issue, and it’s actually affecting my work life so it’s time to ask the internet: why do people think I’m a ditz? How can I clearly set an impression of do-not-treat-me-like-aModerator cut: language--baby?
Here’s the thing: this is solely based off of personality. If I meet someone whose read my resume first, or heard anything about me, they get all glittery eyed and start calling me ‘big sis’ and ‘genius’ and go into a ream of familiar ‘can you do this math problem’ round of questions. But if they just meet me cold turkey without fail, people start trying to mother me, patting my head or giving me literal coos, saying stuff while shaking their head in despair “what would you do without me?†while condescendingly patting my back. Why are they touching me.
I’m not bad looking, but there’s something about the way I act that just ticks off every ‘defenseless, adorable’ box in people’s head to the extent some especially responsible types actually get pissed off at me for being so ‘naive.’
The most irresponsible people I know have come up to me, all concerned, telling me “I should watch less anime/ spend less time (subject here)/ stop reading so much because I am concerned about your grades.†Seriously, *****? I’m going to graduate two years early because of my great grades, honors, and horrendous amount of credits I have burned through, I’m astounded you are concerned because ‘you never see me study.’ My current grades are way better than yours, and you know this. This has happened more than once, from completely different people. “I never see you do work.†Yeah well that’s because I do it behind closed doors where I can focus, and don’t think I can’t see that skeptical look you’re giving me. This actually really pisses me off, being underestimated so badly it affects my chances of getting a good position.
Professors have asked me if I plagiarized material, because the formal nature of my writing. My own parents think I’m lazy and clueless [sic] despite my impressive amount of competitions, activities, leadership roles, and grades. I have people grab me by the collar before I cross the street because they are WORRIED I will get hit by a car. Apparently I give off the air of a playful six year old. I have a crapload of hobbies, which people regularly give me 'concerned interventions' over, and no one believes I was concertmaster on orchestra such and such until I literally whip out my violin and play some ****in arpeggios, bach, whatever. IT'S THAT BAD.
Even when I was a schoolteacher in Korea, one of my managers refused me a kindergarden job because “my head was in the clouds.†Just…. ****…. why….
Fact is: I smile a lot. I am easy-going and I don't take offense easily, and I say everything in the same tone, so I sound confident no matter what. I don't make easy conclusions, because I need to be 100% sure of things. I forget names, but I think faster than a vast majority of people I meet, which has been confirmed with various tests and experiments. People think I’m extremely nice and something to take care of, for some reason, and really ‘cute.’ I want to be considered 'smart,' not the kneejerk 'genius' label, which also isn't true. Maybe it's cute because I tilt my head when I’m confused? I make stupid sounds when I’m startled? Since I read so much as a kid, I learned most of my vocab from books so I mispronounce a lot. When I get excited I vibrate and I find a lot of things funny? Unbeknownst to the average friend, I have an A-type personality, I stress over everything and I work so hard my sleep schedule and period are extremely irregular. It doesn’t matter. People think I’m lazy, air headed, and unmotivated. Unless I do a sherlock-esque analysis of all their belongings or personal flaws and stun them so hard they cry baby tears, people will refuse to acknowledge I am a person with an opinion. I cry easily, but I punch people easier, and all the time people are surprised ‘at how strong I am.’ Because I’m flexible and bloody stubborn, I’ve never lost a fight, also I always get into vicious spats with my younger brothers who are both over 6 feet on a fairly regular basis. Also I’m in law school and I want to join the army.
In the past, people have called me 'lacking in common sense,' 'very creative,' 'always running,' 'always reading,' 'strong personality,' 'airheaded,' 'gifted,' 'stupid,' 'overbearing,' 'distant,' 'noncompetitive,' 'lazy,' 'doesn't take anything seriously,' 'absentminded,' 'overly competitive,' 'takes life easy,' 'very chill,' even though I feel as if a lot of these are pretty inaccurate. For reference. When I am so stressed I'm about to throw myself off a building, people ask me how I'm so laid back and happy all the time. At the exact moment of murderous rage, to boot.
It’s to the point where if I say something slightly sassy and negative about someone, people will stop what they are doing and stare at me for a good 15 seconds, making me feel awkward. Then they will a) burst into laughter or b) start sputtering about their shock. And I have to sit there, trying to come up with a ****ing response to that. Like “ahahaha??? please stop.â€
I have a lot of pride, so this is a big pain in the butt and I would like it to stop. I would like people to take me seriously and stop touching me without me having to be flat and rude to the point of scaring them, aka bitchy. Like, you don’t naturally go up to people and start saying stuff like “Ah, I’ll be your older brother/sister now, ahahaha, you little rascal, what would you even do without me? Be dead, probably. Hey! Don’t eat that, it’s unhealthy!†I'm not kidding, this is a thing that happened from totally unrelated groups of people in different countries. I am over 20, I will eat what the hell I want, I do not need your help crossing the street, I don’t need you to teach me ****, please stop. I just want to be a normal bro-friend. Stop being shocked when I’m clearly better than you at (physical activity here). Oh my god, I’m not even deceiving you, this is stuff I’ve said clearly stated help. Once my roommate wanted to kick me out of the room because they were watching an 'adult movie,' though that is a pretty overt example.
I am ****ing mean. I am also excruciatingly polite, because I have principles, but if someone condescendingly tries to explain to me something I already know once more because I am ‘airheaded’ I will kick them in the balls so swiftly their unutilized parietal lobe will vibrate out of their ass and settle daintily back within their peanut skulls where it ****ing belongs.
Yeah so. In the interest of not resorting to violence, how do I give off a more 'normal' vibe then 'head in the clouds.'
You know some women have that high pitched cartoony voice? Try pitching your voice lower, and practice speaking that way. That would be the one thing that, from your post, might be affecting how you are perceived.
You know some women have that high pitched cartoony voice? Try pitching your voice lower, and practice speaking that way. That would be the one thing that, from your post, might be affecting how you are perceived.
Good suggestion. Except the OP says that people baby her without her saying or doing anything. Still, voice coaching can help with this sort of thing.
As a couple of others have said, size plays a major part in it. You've also mentioned Japanese ancestry and cute face. Those traits combined with small size for some reason cause people to treat adult women as if they were children. I worked with a software engineer once who was about 4 foot 8 inches so size wise she looked like a middle schooler. What I noticed was she also resorted to semi aggressive attitude and curse words to compensate. First thing I noticed from your first post, before you even mentioned ancestry, was how similar your combative communication style was to hers. Those of us who knew what a good engineer she was didn't care, but many managers seemed to want to ignore her or mother her in meetings.
I appreciate the spirit of what you are saying, but I sat an hour through her bs just to be polite and I know exactly what she meant. She thought I was making a huge mistake going to law school because SHE felt that way. I actually got angry enough I asked her to stop talking about it and she got offended over this. I don't speak with her. She gives terrible advice routinely.
If I ever am old and in a nursing home, perhaps I'll be bereft of pride enough to find people patronizing me as a benefit, but not quite yet. But you are kind and I appreciate the optimism.
@ Ruth4Truth
I really hope I do not run into those problems. That sounds extra irritating. I'm pretty immune to most social mockeries because I genuinely don't care, but those problems sound ridiculous. My superiors have told me I'm too nice and I smile too much, so your advice is super relevant and helpful. I was in a weird situation for my last job where I was basically out-stubborning certain factors that impressed my coworkers, and nipped most problems in the bud. I have no such hopes for the legal profession, though it might become just as exciting.
Your polite but firm comebacks sound amazing, I will do that. You win on most helpful advice. I have been in this exact scenario, and I just usually laugh it off. "I worked so hard on this! start blabbing about their presentation." Your solution is so much better.
I guess WE'LL JUST MAKE THE BEST OF WHAT WE HAVE EH? Fine. I'll think of the 'cute response' like an extra asset that sometimes is also a boulder.
Oh, here's something funny you can add to your portfolio of case studies. People don't like to cuss around me. They feel very uncomfortable addressing topics like sex in my vicinity. I have heard people warning other people not to cuss around me. It's pretty ridiculous and encourages the view that I'm to be babied so I dislike it.
@ oldtrader
Your recollection actually sparked an annoying one of mine: when I was in the fourth grade science fair I came up with a really great project. I badgered my dad to let me into a lab and asked him for advice, but I did all the work and concept and setup. It was about the acidity of various citrus fruits and how it could sterilize bacteria like yeast infections. (I ate some fungused bread and then lemons after to wash out the taste. My dad leaves a lot of medical books in the bathroom, and he practices his medical presentations on me. My mom eats healthy and talks about science. Alright? A lot of contributing factors.) I even surveyed classmates to see if the sourness of citrus affected the actual result etc. I was stoked. My classmates had like dog color testing and basically terrible simplistic projects. I did so much research. I still know a ****load about bacterial infections, yeast infections, iodine, alcohol and citrus acidity. I got my dad to help arrange control groups, help me with the equipment, and be advisory. But I did everything. Everything! I made him take photos to prove it. So when it came time to present to the judges, I blabbered on happily but then I noticed their faces. Frowns. I faltered, thinking maybe I said something bad?
They asked me if I did this experiment. I didn't understand. There were pictures. I told them yes. They asked me if my parents helped. I said yes. They looked at my iodine test tube and asked me if I made all the equipment. I told them I bought it, but I arranged the board with a ruler and double sided tape and I was good at microsoft word formatting, still not understanding. They nodded to themselves and left, when I hadn't even explained all the tests yet, the booklets of students I surveyed so the experiment was even 'social' and little displays of lemons or whatever. I thought they hated my project.
At award ceremony, I got honorable mention. For that amazing medical-advisory project, an honorable mention. I didn't think much of it at the time, so I was happy. Then I asked the judges if there was something wrong with my project, because the winning one had to do with conclusion: plants face sunlight, which we already learned ages ago in science class. They told me I didn't do my project. I must've looked confused, because they clarified that I was a fourth grade girl that lied about my project. I didn't understand why, until they told me it was impossible for someone my age to do my project without help. I tentatively told them I used petri dishes from a lab, but I did it. They rolled their eyes. At the time, I was just really confused and rejected, and I never entered a science competition again. Now I'm just bitter. That's probably why I stayed away from biology until high school. I used to be so interested, too.
Basically, this has happened again. College? People don't believe what I write is what I write.Too formal, too sad, too complicated, whatever. Violin? People slam open the doors to make sure I'm not playing a CD. People mock me for refusing their 'help' with homework, and just stop talking to me when they catch sight of my perfectly serviceable result and can't gloat. When I'm creating something, people tell me it looks like a mess and tell me to do REAL work and get all 'huuuh that's not bad' when it's finished. People are very quick to laugh and to say 'I told you so' magnanimously when I'm not even vaguely asking for their advice or opinion. It's not really an advantage. It's kind of disheartening trying to do anything while people are telling you you're going to fail for your own good. I'd rather people expect better of me instead of expecting me to trip and fall over and cry for their help.
The way you describe it, it's only a weapon if everyone already expects you to fail. Or somehow guilting people into lowering their standards? I'm fine with being treated harshly, thanks. The last thing I want to hear is I achieved something only because people were being nice to me. And people would say this.
I am pretty optimistic, but after a while, I just have to let out some steam. I used to joke about it, imitate people's shocked faces or whatever, but after years it's kind of grating and adds at least five minutes of unnecessary conversation to any point I'm making. It's easier just to say nothing, but I'm revitalized now to fight the good fight. I will sass my way through this. I appreciate your comment though, it did cheer me up.
But in a nutshell: very annoying. You seem thoughtful and considerate. Your wife is strong. Go tell her how amazing she is. <3
@silibran
I'm an alto. My voice is naturally pitched low. My dad used to confuse me for my brothers on the phone. But fair advice. I honestly think it's more my mannerisms.
@ tnff
Hm, then I guess it's just a natural response to being dismissed a lot. I never say anything unless I have the proof to back it up because I'm always questioned, or patronized, whatever, but I don't curse irl. (I love law for this, it forces people to be argue more-or-less reasonably.) I just say things and people won't believe me. So the internet is a godsend, I can literally just link the relevant studies, papers, and cases to people. Also irl, I'm not aggressive. I'm naturally happy, it's a pain to be pained. For something to actually annoy me it must have been a long time coming.
But important to note whenever I do take a firm stand, and I stay perfectly calm and non confrontational, people usually do back down. Unless it is a person who explodes into hysterical anger and starts calling me '*****' and whatnot. Since that's just puzzling to me, that seems to make them angrier. But I know two people like that, and it seems to be more their issue than mine. This disassociation also seems to anger them, so there's no winning with that.
Engineering doesn't sound too kind for girls, I can't really fault her for being defensive. I am glad she has coworkers who trust her work.
Last edited by charmellia; 12-19-2014 at 10:24 PM..
OP, did you get your dad to vouch for you when your teachers told you you lied about doing your science project? What did your parents say about that?
And that's another thing that happens to very young-looking women; people either can't believe they really did the work they say they did, or try to make excuses for how they learned 4 years of music skills in just a few months (lol!), or a few start sayin, "Oh, you're very intelligent!" as if you're a child prodigy, unaware that you're 35 or 40 years old and are simply drawing on your experience.
It sounds like you could use a support group of people in your similar situation. As you go through life, keep an eye out for women in similar shoes, and reach out to them. Commiserate with them, and maybe you can gradually build a little group to vent with, and brainstorm on how to deal with these situations.
I do not waste one minute of time concerning myself about what people think of me. Those people will not matter to me five years from now. I do not allow them to occupy my time.
Good luck in law school.
OP, did you get your dad to vouch for you when your teachers told you you lied about doing your science project? What did your parents say about that?
And that's another thing that happens to very young-looking women; people either can't believe they really did the work they say they did, or try to make excuses for how they learned 4 years of music skills in just a few months (lol!), or a few start sayin, "Oh, you're very intelligent!" as if you're a child prodigy, unaware that you're 35 or 40 years old and are simply drawing on your experience.
It sounds like you could use a support group of people in your similar situation. As you go through life, keep an eye out for women in similar shoes, and reach out to them. Commiserate with them, and maybe you can gradually build a little group to vent with, and brainstorm on how to deal with these situations.
Yeah, my dad became really angry when he heard that. But they were like, results are results, too late for anything, and I remember having a hopeless impression because the assigned judges were really 'big bro' types. I was also scared and I told my dad not to make a scene because it didn't really matter. I didn't understand the implications. I did win the spelling bee though, and I had a great fourth grade teacher who gave me a lot of books instead of removing them from my hands i.e every other teacher. In retrospect, this all sounds pretty weird.
Even though I got good grades, they were angry it looked like I was reading all the time, I think.
And wow, I got a real sense of validation there. I always got mixed feelings when I finished a performance and someone would say "Oh, what talent! I didn't expect that!" but since it was a compliment, I never really said anything. But it's exactly that! I've been playing violin for years, under really driven and halfway desperate conditions, I better be good at it! It's not magical talent! Just say 'good job! you worked hard.' Yeah!! Ah well, like you can seriously expect that from people, but at least I'll smile more genuinely knowing why I don't feel too complimented and can fully appreciate the spirit in which it was intended.
And I do learn fast, but usually teachers are happy about that. I'll look out for girls barely suppressing eye rolls and wink at them. It will be a group of winkers. "Cheer up, this too will pass, and if not, you can punch through it." (METAPHORICALLY people)
Last edited by charmellia; 12-19-2014 at 11:13 PM..
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