Sibling(brother) conflict opinions. What do y'all think. (wife, presents, siblings)
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This is going to be a long very long post but it needs to be long to tell the whole story.
One of my brother and I haven't spoke to each other in a year now. The reason, well ...
We have a family with 6 siblings, 5 boys and 1 girl. I'm the 3rd and the conflict brother is the 4th oldest.
This all started for me at least Many years ago. We are a semi close family and we would all go out to dinner with our parents for most of the holidays and special occasions. Now with a big family like that including in laws and kids and what not, it's a huge party and I mean like 25-30 of us. Now when we were younger, our parents took care of the bill. But the older we got, and the bigger the family, some of us realize that our parents shouldn't be responsible for the huge bill. At first, my oldest brother started taking care of it then I realize that's not fair so I'd pitch in and split the bill. This went on for many years and we would be offered money by all the other siblings too except for the 4th brother. He would never ever offer. Now my oldest brother makes good money and I make ok. But we never excepted any money from any of the siblings cause frankly, they don't make that much and what not but they still offer here and there, we just say thank you but never take their money. Once again, they offer except brother 4. By the way, Brother 4 makes about if not more than me. My wife, my oldest brothers wife, and my oldest brother notice this too and we just never said anything. So we just concluded that he's cheap and selfish. Now I'll be the first to admit that we should have nipped it in the bud. But to talk to our brother and call him cheap and what not makes me feel very uncomfortable. I just thought that it will click for him one day and realize he needs to offer. Even my parents notice this and says he's cheap too. So basically, about 6-8 of us just say he's cheap and leave it at that. As far as all the other siblings, we never really talked to them about this cause frankly, they really never pay for the bill so they don't notice who offerers and what not. Now each sibling has wives and kid(s) of their own so we're not talking about single siblings here. Our dinner includes families so it's not that he by himself. So that's that but not the reason for the blowout between him and I.
the story continues with my wife and I have been trying to have kids for over 6 years and we were able to finally conceive. So you know how special of a time for us it was. We were on cloud nine cause we've been waiting for for so long. The baby shower comes along and it was big. We have a lot of of friends and family;-) After it was all and done, we were going through all the gifts and what not to send thank you notes and realize we didn't receive anything from brother 4. We just thought we misplaced it so I called my brother and ask him what he gift he gave us so we can look for it. He says "oh sorry, we forgot or we didn't have time". "I'll get you next time". Now before anyone says anything about the material notion of the gift, IT WAS NOT ABOUT THE GIFT. For us, it was the thought. He could have stopped by somewhere on the way to the shower and got us a card or what not knowing how special of an occasion it was for us. But he didn't. Now we had over 250 people at our baby shower and not a single person except for this brother forgot to bring a gift. Was my wife and I a little hurt, sure, but we tried to give him the benefit of the doubt that he had other important things on his mind. So whatever.
The story continues. 2 weeks later was thanksgiving at my oldest brothers house. Everyone was there. Now if it was me and I forgot my a gift for my brother on what was a very special occasion for him just 2 weeks ago, I surely wouldn't have forgotten it this time. I surely would have seen his face and realize about the gift again. But not a word was mentioned. Whatever.
Now we finally get to the blowout. 2 weeks after that, my mothers birthday. My mother voluntarily told me that everyone in the family called her and wished her a happy birthday except brother 4. Now by her voluntarily telling me that, I know she must have been very hurt. And it probably wasn't a good thing telling me cause of what happened with me and him about my baby shower. I had a bad taste already with him. By the way, I never told anyone about the gift thing at my baby shower to any members of my family so they didn't know. After she tells me that, I just said, you know what mom, if he didn't care about calling you for your birthday, they he won't care if he's excluded from your birthday dinner. We just won't invite him. My mother said ok. I called my older brother and told him the same and he said ok. So my parents knew, my older brother and his wife knew, and my wife and I knew that we weren't going to invite this brother. We didn't tell anyone else cause we were the one planning and as usual, taking care of the bill so they were not privy of us not inviting brother 4. When the dinner happened and the other members ask where brother 4 was, we just said he couldn't make it. Now was it wrong/right of me to do this. It's debatable but it was the last straw for me.
When brother 4 found out afterwards, that's when it all blew out. Now you can say I was Thrown under the bus by my parents and older brother cause I was the fall guy for this. When my brother found out he was excluded from the dinner, my parents told him that I was the one that initiated that. One thing right or wrong is that my parents and my oldest brother is very non confrontational and I guess I'm the alpha one in the family.
So he calls me up and I laid it out the line for him about everything. I even told him that our parents and oldest brother felt the same. So he called them up and they agreed with me. He was cheap and selfish. They told him that straight out. He was very hurt but basically took it all out on me cause I was the one who initiated the dinner thing. I explained to him that yes I initiated it but neither his parents or oldest brother who knew put up a fight for not inviting him. I thought he would see the big picture that it was not just me, but no. He said that I not only not include him but his wife and daughter as well for seeing their cousins, etc. he called me every name a lot of names but I didn't respond thinking it must be tough for him to find out he is viewed that way by members of his family. I told him that I'll apologize that he had to find out about it this way. But it was tough for us to talk to him about it. Well even though my oldest brother and parents tell him the same, his wrath is with me and I don't really care. He didn't show up for Christmas or any occasions for a few months after that cause I guess he's embarrassed and hurt. But he started coming again for the past 6 months.
So we haven't talked in over a year. He stills talks to my parents and oldest brother but not me. When I had my son, I let everyone know including him. When he just had his twins this past 6 months, he let everyone know except me. I had to find out though my other family members. Since he excluded me, I never went to see his new twins. So now for family occasions, we don't talk. It's awkward but whatever. My family talks to him about the situation and he has the gall to say even if I apologized to him, he's not sure. What the hell do I have to apologize to him for?
So please all, who's in the right/wrong.
I'm grateful for those whose actually read this long post and those who will give me their opinion.
There is no right or wrong, just sad pathetic people.
Gifts are not mandatory, no matter how long it took you to conceive.
You had no right excluding him from your mothers birthday party. They were right to let him know it was you idea to do so.
It would be interesting to hear his side of the story.
Apparently he and the family get along fine though. It seems when it comes down to it, you are the only one who cannot accept him for how he is.
Do you want him in your life (warts and all), or do you want to be "right"?
Problem- he does not offer to contribute to family gatherings. Solution- ask the server to hand him his own bill.
Problem- he did not give you a gift. No problem.
Problem he did not call home for a birthday. No problem until you involved yourself in a solution that excluded this family member. It was not your problem. Next time call him and remind him Mom expects a call for her birthday. She mentioned it, so it must mean something to her.
Problem- Keeping secret a planned party because he does not give presents and did not wish happy birthday.
Problem - laying it on the line, hurting his feelings and expecting him to see past the hurt for your bigger picture.
Problem - you have no relationship with your brother. Solution- keep sending cards and gifts to his children for holidays and birthdays. Be their Uncle and be nice.
Last edited by RonkonkomaNative; 01-12-2015 at 02:35 PM..
Reason: i forgot
There is no right or wrong, just sad pathetic people.
Gifts are not mandatory, no matter how long it took you to conceive.
You had no right excluding him from your mothers birthday party. They were right to let him know it was you idea to do so.
Apparently he and the family get along fine though. It seems when it comes down to it, you are the only one who cannot accept him for how he is.
Do you want him in your life (warts and all), or do you want to be "right"?
But they didn't say no either did they? They told him he was cheap and selfish too!
Problem- he does not offer to contribute to family gatherings. Solution- ask the server to hand him his own bill.
Problem- he did not give you a gift. No problem.
Problem he did not call home for a birthday. No problem until you involved yourself in a solution that excluded this family member. It was not your problem.
Problem- Keeping secret a planned party because he does not give presents and did not wish happy birthday.
Problem - laying it on the line, hurting his feelings and expecting him to see past the hurt for your bigger picture.
Problem - you have no relationship with your brother. Solution- keep sending cards and gifts to his children for holidays and birthdays. Be their Uncle and be nice.
1) our family isn't a split the bill type. We all just try to contribute. So tell me, if you were in this exact situation where you see everyone trying to contribute, how could you not offer?
2) who does that? Who goes to a special occasion and not bring anything? And when asked, oh sorry I forgot or didn't have time? Do you go to weddings empty handed? Do you go to kids birthdays empty handed? Where in society is that the norm?
3) when my 70 year mother voluntarily tells me this, I cannot ignore it. It tells me how hurt she was.
4)I'm not the only one who feels like this. I'm just the one who brought it out in the open. Would it have been better to let this go on while many on the family feels this?
Last edited by kcatheart; 01-12-2015 at 02:47 PM..
There is no right or wrong, just sad pathetic people.
Gifts are not mandatory, no matter how long it took you to conceive.
You had no right excluding him from your mothers birthday party. They were right to let him know it was you idea to do so.
It would be interesting to hear his side of the story.
Apparently he and the family get along fine though. It seems when it comes down to it, you are the only one who cannot accept him for how he is.
Do you want him in your life (warts and all), or do you want to be "right"?
Apparently they can't accept it either cause they told him the same thing as I've said. He just chooses to not talk to me cause I initiated it. So it would have been better for me to hear them complain year in and year out about things brother 4 would do and not do?
Problem- he does not offer to contribute to family gatherings. Solution- ask the server to hand him his own bill.
Problem- he did not give you a gift. No problem.
Problem he did not call home for a birthday. No problem until you involved yourself in a solution that excluded this family member. It was not your problem. Next time call him and remind him Mom expects a call for her birthday. She mentioned it, so it must mean something to her.
Problem- Keeping secret a planned party because he does not give presents and did not wish happy birthday.
Problem - laying it on the line, hurting his feelings and expecting him to see past the hurt for your bigger picture.
Problem - you have no relationship with your brother. Solution- keep sending cards and gifts to his children for holidays and birthdays. Be their Uncle and be nice.
Great post.
OP, you are keeping score, and your brother noticed. I question if you and your older brother, by always splitting the check and refusing contributions, are giving the impression that you are showing off. Maybe some of the siblings are ok with it, but this brother doesn't seem to be.
Sure, they let you be the fall guy....But, as you stated....You did initiate the non-invite situation. You will have to decide if you want to change this uncomfortable feeling between the both of you...If you do, step up, take him out to lunch, or somewhere where you two can talk it out. Explain how you were hurt, not mad....but hurt....And that you were wrong to exclude him because you were hurt.
Sounds like you all have a wonderful large loving family otherwise....And, that previously you all had just accepted your brother. I do have a question....you mentioned your other younger siblings do not pay either....so why is the 4th brother seen in such a negative light, and the younger ones aren't??
As far as dinners go....I would sit down with all the siblings, and have a meeting...You and brother number one should lead this off with now that the family has gotten so large....you feel everyone should contribute to those large gatherings. Maybe it is time for pot luck dinners, rather than expensive restaurant gatherings.
Remember...you both were hurt....Start with that....Have some compassion for him, and maybe he will also for you. Losing a brother (sibling) is one of the worst things in my opinion. Do anything you can to make it right now. Otherwise, years from now you will regret it. And congrats on the baby!
OP, you are keeping score, and your brother noticed. I question if you and your older brother, by always splitting the check and refusing contributions, are giving the impression that you are showing off. Maybe some of the siblings are ok with it, but this brother doesn't seem to be.
How is it showing off when everyone tries to contribute but this one sits on his wallet and never once have offered? That doesn't make sense to me. Explain further please.
So as we get older, should let our parents pay for us throughout their life? Me and my oldest brother shouldn't have taken the initiative to pay for the bill. If it's showing off, why do the other members still offer to this day?
Sure, they let you be the fall guy....But, as you stated....You did initiate the non-invite situation. You will have to decide if you want to change this uncomfortable feeling between the both of you...If you do, step up, take him out to lunch, or somewhere where you two can talk it out. Explain how you were hurt, not mad....but hurt....And that you were wrong to exclude him because you were hurt.
Sounds like you all have a wonderful large loving family otherwise....And, that previously you all had just accepted your brother. I do have a question....you mentioned your other younger siblings do not pay either....so why is the 4th brother seen in such a negative light, and the younger ones aren't??
As far as dinners go....I would sit down with all the siblings, and have a meeting...You and brother number one should lead this off with now that the family has gotten so large....you feel everyone should contribute to those large gatherings. Maybe it is time for pot luck dinners, rather than expensive restaurant gatherings.
Remember...you both were hurt....Start with that....Have some compassion for him, and maybe he will also for you. Losing a brother (sibling) is one of the worst things in my opinion. Do anything you can to make it right now. Otherwise, years from now you will regret it. And congrats on the baby!
The other family member do not pay but they've offer consistently but we just say it's ok, we got. That's the thing, they've offered. Brother 4 has never even offered. Funny thing is, bills are upwards of $500 and some member offer what they can afford like trying to give $40 or whatnot and that's perfectly fine. We just discreetly give it back to them cause we know our financial situation might be a little better off than theirs. It's not about the money, gift or whatnot, it's about the thought. As for family dinners, it's been the same. He just wouldn't show up.
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