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What exactly do you expect people to tell you about their whereabouts? Is it sufficient for them to tell you that they were busy, or do you expect them to tell you exactly what they were doing?
I would *never* agree to do that. Other than my dh, others have no need to know my specific activities. I might opt to give specific information, but that is my choice.
What is DH?
To answer your question "I'm busy" is typically good enough, although if one is always saying that I might develop the opinion that they're blowing me off and that I'd appreciate them being straightforward vs me "taking the hint." Otherwise, "I'm busy" is fine by me. It's {crickets} which I consider disrespectful.
We're getting a bit off-track, which I don't mind, but the moderators may, so I'm trying to keep it within the lines if you will.
To wit: this thread isn't really about phone availability, it's about someone not wanting their family to do "pop in" visits without a heads-up call. I've simply made 2 points (1) I think pop-ins ought to be OK between close friends (so long as it's not grand central station and (2) that said, if we're going to compromise and say "OK call first" I'm simply saying "well then, return such calls reasonably promptly vs not returning the call and expecting them to take a hint." As others have said "in this age of cell phones there's no reason not to call first" I've simply rebutted "by the same standard 'in this age of cell phones' if someone calls to ask if it's OK to visit, it's so easy to quickly answer 'can't today' or whatever vs them 'taking a hint' that your non-return of the call is effectively an answer of NO."
That's where this started to detour a bit.
No, I don't think anyone owes me an explanation, nor do I owe them, about what their daily activities have consisted of. Heck no. However--yes, as others have said, "in this age of cell phones," it's very understandable that one would be a bit anxious if it takes all day for them to hear back from someone. Some would argue "the one calling is being silly to get worked up over such things," I'm simply countering "I rather consider it rude to leave someone hanging all day long when it takes all of 5 seconds to simply text back 'I'm busy' or such." The AutoSMS app I mentioned makes it even easier.
I'm simply advocating following the golden rule--when I call someone, if I don't hear from them all day, I can become anxious about the matter. Thus, if I'm engaging in an activity that has me in a do not disturb (DND) stance for a period, I do the Auto SMS thing--that way, they hear SOMETHING back, yet being that it's automatic I'm not being interrupted. I don't feel like I'm at everybody's beck & call, they don't go half the day wondering what's going on, and it's almost automatic (once set up). Everybody wins.
I'm simply making this case--if cell phones have changed expectations about how one should call first before visiting, then in like manner they've changed expectations about how quickly one can reply (even automatically with an AutoSMS app) to the negative about NOT being up for a visit vs just brushing their friend off.
If I don't return a call, it means I am busy. Or unavailable. Or possibly out of signal range. That happens quite a bit in some areas. There is no reason for someone to worry unless I am elderly/frail and need someone to check on my well being regularly.
I have close friends/family that often do not return calls for a day or so. Their obligation is not to me, but only to their spouse.
(getting back on the original topic) If they do not return my call, then I do not stop by their house. It matters not that they may have turned off their phone or whatever.
In all fairness, if someone has "dropping in privileges", then I will have *told* that person "just stop by anytime you are in the neighborhood. No need to call first". Otherwise, they are presuming too much.
And yes, sometimes we are not up for a visit. Nothing negative about that. It's life. Like right now - dh is taking a nap (it's a vacation day for him and he deserves a mid day nap!). I've had a busy day and am enjoying a quiet afternoon. A knock on the door would interrupt a peaceful break in a busy life.
Because I didn't realize how self conscious she was about being seen in her PJ's... they arent like revealing or anything, just not flattering
So, have you apologized to her, your mother, your sister and everyone else for causing this turmoil in the family? What steps have you taken to accept responsibility and attempt to make things better going forward. Going on a public forum to try to get people to view you as a victim don't count.
Why would you assume the worst possible scenario if I don't reply to a cell phone call right away? I'll call you back when it is convenient for me. I don't want to leave a message saying -sorry, busy right now. You can leave me a message telling me what you want. I can tell by the tone in your voice or the message if I need to call you back in a hurry. It's not my fault that cell phones have created an atmosphere where a person must be available at all times- I'm not. If you don't reach me the first time, leave a message or call back later, Isn't that what we did when only landlines were available?
No, OP, people shouldn't just think that they can drop by and visit like that. You may have been used to it when you were single but you aren't now. If you see this relationship as being long term, let your mom and sister know that boundaries have changed (you should have checked yous sister at Thanksgiving) whether they like it or not. You have to take in your girlfriends point of view as well.
Why would you assume the worst possible scenario if I don't reply to a cell phone call right away? I'll call you back when it is convenient for me. I don't want to leave a message saying -sorry, busy right now. You can leave me a message telling me what you want. I can tell by the tone in your voice or the message if I need to call you back in a hurry. It's not my fault that cell phones have created an atmosphere where a person must be available at all times- I'm not. If you don't reach me the first time, leave a message or call back later, Isn't that what we did when only landlines were available?
No, OP, people shouldn't just think that they can drop by and visit like that. You may have been used to it when you were single but you aren't now. If you see this relationship as being long term, let your mom and sister know that boundaries have changed (you should have checked yous sister at Thanksgiving) whether they like it or not. You have to take in your girlfriends point of view as well.
Why would you assume the worst possible scenario if I don't reply to a cell phone call right away? I'll call you back when it is convenient for me. I don't want to leave a message saying -sorry, busy right now. You can leave me a message telling me what you want. I can tell by the tone in your voice or the message if I need to call you back in a hurry. It's not my fault that cell phones have created an atmosphere where a person must be available at all times- I'm not. If you don't reach me the first time, leave a message or call back later, Isn't that what we did when only landlines were available?
No, OP, people shouldn't just think that they can drop by and visit like that. You may have been used to it when you were single but you aren't now. If you see this relationship as being long term, let your mom and sister know that boundaries have changed (you should have checked yous sister at Thanksgiving) whether they like it or not. You have to take in your girlfriends point of view as well.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Me personally--I'm really big on spelling these sorts of things out and being clear (I'm not real fond of Internet acronyms for the same reason). It doesn't take that long, and really, how many of us are actually THAT "busy?" Given that you can get apps for a phone that auto-reply for you and it's a win-win situation, I regard it myself as my obligation to those who'd call me.
Yes in the days of landlines we merely left messages and then waited. So what? Before answering machines, we couldn't do even that, how many of us refused answering machines because "we got along fine without them before?" I could give many other examples, but simply enough--just because something was sufficient in the past doesn't by itself mean is still is, especially when superior options to it now exist. (Otherwise, I'd still be dragging around my cassette collection everywhere with me.)
To be clear, I'm actually fine with leaving messages and calls being returned later most times, but I believe my callers deserve a reasonably quick reply. I'm way off topic, but I have even noticed local sellers taking their sweet time returning calls or not bothering to update their ad that the product has sold and expecting people to "take a hint" vs replying "sorry it's sold" and/or pulling the ad. When I put something up for sale, if there are periods of time where it may take me a good while to respond to inquiries--here's that term, I spell it out in the ad so they know. I don't expect them to be OK with me not replying for hours on end, and I'm apt to lose sales that way. Further, when the product has sold, I am QUICK to pull the ad, I don't leave it up for days on end, ignore all the inquiries, and expect people to "take a hint" that the product has sold. It is my responsibility to be clear and spell it out. Why do so many of us act like being clear that way vs leaving people hanging is such a huge burden and an asinine expectation? (Especially when--and I know I'm beating a dead horse saying this--they have apps to do all the work for you.)
I will agree on one thing pertinent to the topic--if the original poster wants people calling before they come over, they need to SPELL THAT OUT to his family if they haven't already (I believe they have), and do so NOT when they've shown up at the door and it's too late to undo the damage, but as soon as possible to be clear upfront well in advance. I also agree that he has to take his girlfriend's point of view into consideration as well. I think requiring someone to schedule visits like a dentist appointment is ridiculous, frankly, but he absolutely needs to respect her views vs just his own.
Location: Sodo Sopa at The Villas above Kenny' s House.
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Originally Posted by shyguylh
I respectfully beg to differ. I think family friends, close ones for sure, most certainly are obligated to do exactly that, especially when it's as easy as it is and can be done as quickly as it can be done. It saves people a lot of wondering and agony and takes barely a few seconds. (To clarify--I don't think people are obligated to explain every move they make, heck no, but I think it's understandable that close friends would wonder what you were doing that made it to where it took you half the day long to return a phone call.)
Heck, when I started my particular job last year, I thought they were going to be strict about phone usage on the job. They weren't, but thinking that they were, I found an app which I can quickly engage and which will automatically "bounce back" or autoreply to any incoming phones calls and/or texts with a quick "auto reply" along the lines of "I'm at work, can't talk right now, will reply when I get a chance." Once set up, all I have to do is click the icon right there on my Android, and it stays that way until I'm done, also logging phone calls/texts etc as usual, and also putting the ringer on vibrate. I can focus on my work, and yet people know that state of affairs and have their mind at ease--without me having to reply to anyone at all. (Further, if it's important family etc, they can show up at work knowing that's where I'm at.)
I haven't needed this at work as I thought I would, but I've had occasions where it's been handy. There are days where I may sleep in late, I'll have it reply "I'm sleeping, will call when I wake up." If I'm on a long bicycle ride or otherwise enjoying the outdoors in a "disconnect from electronics" type of way, I will have it say "I'm out enjoying the outdoors, I'll reply when I slow down." I have 3-4 of these "profiles" set up, and I simply tap the off/on toggle and go. That's it. Whatever the case, it shows an icon in the status bar so you know it's in this state, and you can even (if I recall) have it change the wallpaper when it's engaged so you have that glaring in your face also to remind you that it's in this state. I can also specify a "range" of time after which it will automatically return to the normal state of things, thus I'm much less at risk of forgetting and it being in this "do not disturb" status all day well after my DND activites are over and I end up missing calls.
Yes it took a little bit to hunt down such an app (AutoSMS by Thein Min Naing) and configure it, but upon doing so, engaging and disengaging it as needed has been a cinch, easily as quick as turning the phone off or on vibrate in a normal non-app type of manner.
It's not that I think I'm obligated to be "on call 24/7," in fact the very raison d'être of such an app is the notion that sometimes I am NOT on-call, but hey, when I'm not, it's understandable that a person would like to know vs being left hanging, and yet I feel the desire/need to have that handled for me automatically, so I can truly focus on whatever and not become irritated. It makes so much sense and is so obvious--and frankly, to me that's the very reason so few people utilize this sort of thing (either that, or they don't care about anyone but themselves--they use a cell phone for being able to reach other people quickly, yet consider it an "imposition" that others should be able to reach them quickly).
Do you use online dating? I'm sorry,but you sound like the kind of guy that's bitter because you've been left hanging often. As correct and rational as your convinced your argument is,does it not matter that no other posters agree?
Well, I must respectfully say agree with the adult children you speak of, and the mother-in-law. Cell phones have RIGHTLY created this expectation, as well they should have. I have this expectation, and I don't apologize for it. I'm typically not ugly about it, mind you, but especially if it's a person of close significance I do tell them that in this day/age of cell phones there's no reason for long periods of unavailability. This is especially the case given that so many have in this thread have stated "in this age of cell phones, why wouldn't you call before coming over?" OK, well then, "in this age of cell phones," why should a close person have to wait several hours to hear back from family/close friends etc?
Is it that hard to simply set up the phone to "auto reply" with a "busy, will talk later" reply during such occasions? People are RIGHT to not want to have to go half the night long to hear back from someone, now that cell phones are so cheap and affordable and now that we have things like texting and auto-reply applications, and "power packs" (for a whopping $5) so phones can be charged even if one isn't near an outlet. It is an APPROPRIATE expectation. One should probably not be nasty about it, but it's an appropriate expectation just the same. For the same reason, my children are not allowed to ever, ever, ever touch my phone. Ever. They're too likely to turn off the sounds or such. (As I said earlier, though, this expectation is completely different if one is talking about employees being available to their bosses after hours, I'm speaking of personal relationships with people close to you.)
I totally understand that a person has a right to do whatever, and that certainly one should not have to account for their every moment and such, sure, I actually agree with that. I do not at all begrudge a person going out and getting away with their spouse for an evening. However, it only takes a minute to turn on a phone's "auto reply" app to "bounce back" calls-texts etc at such times so a person KNOWS, and it doesn't interrupt you and your socializing in the least. To me, it's just the considerate thing to do. Otherwise, why own a cell phone at all?
I mean, heck, I live on about 50 acres of woods, and periodically I go walking and when I do so I do so to GET AWAY from things. Even then, I STILL take my phone. I may put it on vibrate, using a timer that does this for whatever time I tell it to, after which it automatically restores all alerts, but I still have it with me. Always. It's not that I think people have the right to every minute I breathe, but regardless given how small phones are (unless you own a "phablet") and how easy it is to auto-silence or auto-reply for a period, I actually find it COMFORTING because people aren't going to go hours on end not hearing from me, yet I still get a peaceful and relaxing walk. I don't know, it's just me I suppose.
Cells are a bane... people will get bent out of shape if there is no answer... problem in my area is there is only one spot with reception and even just being in the backyard is a no cell signal and if I'm on the tractor... well simply doesn't happen.
By bent out of shape they can get downright irate and it is only when they verify for themselves not every square inch in a major metro area had coverage they realize... this I why I don't own one... they simply don't work here... I do sometimes have to carry the one from work... and it was to the point where on my day off I would have to call in to say I was going to be in my backyard...
Never had that problem with pagers... it really worked anywhere... I think I carried the last one known to exist... NEVER missed a call and the regular 911 for emergency or 411 just for info worked great...
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 12-03-2015 at 01:47 AM..
So, have you apologized to her, your mother, your sister and everyone else for causing this turmoil in the family? What steps have you taken to accept responsibility and attempt to make things better going forward. Going on a public forum to try to get people to view you as a victim don't count.
What exactly should I "accept responsibility" or apologize for?
Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Me personally--I'm really big on spelling these sorts of things out and being clear (I'm not real fond of Internet acronyms for the same reason). It doesn't take that long, and really, how many of us are actually THAT "busy?" Given that you can get apps for a phone that auto-reply for you and it's a win-win situation, I regard it myself as my obligation to those who'd call me.
Sorry, as an almost 40 year old man, who has been living on his own since age 18, i'm under no obligation to keep my mother informed of my whereabouts, activities, or whatever.
That's not happening
Some of you may have picked up on it, but she's a hard core "empty nester" who was a stay at home mom and knows nothing except her family. She has had a hard time adapting to being an empty nester too. Or, should I say, has NOT adapted to it. Tries to involve herself where it's not wanted.
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To be clear, I'm actually fine with leaving messages and calls being returned later most times, but I believe my callers deserve a reasonably quick reply.
I would have returned the call when I saw it. I have said several times the phone was in my room on mute so I didn't even know I had a missed call.
Sorry, but i'm not apologizing for that.
Sorry mom if it didn't fit your plans...
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I will agree on one thing pertinent to the topic--if the original poster wants people calling before they come over, they need to SPELL THAT OUT to his family if they haven't already (I believe they have), and do so NOT when they've shown up at the door and it's too late to undo the damage, but as soon as possible to be clear upfront well in advance.
I did this, after the fact, I did not make a scene while they were there, this was all done a day or 2 after it happened
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I also agree that he has to take his girlfriend's point of view into consideration as well. I think requiring someone to schedule visits like a dentist appointment is ridiculous, frankly, but he absolutely needs to respect her views vs just his own.
I'm not requiring anyone to "schedule a visit", but call me, and get ****ing verbal acknowledgement that i'm home and ok with you coming by BEFORE you show up at my door
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