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It may be time that you find someone closer to your own age to share your confidences with other than your Grandmother.
Your Grandmother is only looking out for you, and while mostly our Mom's and Grandmothers are simply offering their world experiences.....they may be a bit old fashioned. So, of course to her your deciding to live with someone is not what you should do as a first step towards marriage.
I will ask, have you lived on your own for a few years.....and been your own sole support monetarily? At nearly 30, you likely have, but if you haven't you should have. That is the only way to know what you are capable of. All people need to know from experience that they can take care of themselves.
Also have you had some relationships that were hard life lessons? Perhaps your Grandmother sees this current relationship
as part of a negative, impulsive pattern in your life.
So, while you may not appreciate your Grandmother's negative reaction. You should at least explore why she is reacting this way.
But, I do what to reinforce that you should keep your own counsel regarding your relationships, at least if you do not appreciate the honest advise shared by your Grandmother.
It is very hard to have a child on your own. Planning to enter into a life long commitment to have a child with someone should be looked at from all aspects. This person will always be connected to you, so while you may be a terrific Mother when you have your child....which can be very hard work, especially on your own.
It can become even harder having to deal with the other parent. Know before you choose to do this that you are both on the same page regarding children, their upbringing and the commitment that it takes to raise a healthy confident child. You owe this to yourself, and you owe this to any child that you decide to bring into this world.
Here are just a few links. Research these parenting, and life partner links online. Good advice to help you decide.
......... I do understand where she's coming from: be married in case he leaves you, then you are entitled to a part of his belongings .........
That's the smallest part of it. Marriage has a huge effect on your Social Security benefits. Maybe you won't end up needing the SS check, but you will for sure need the SS medical benefits.
Marriage affects hospital visits and who makes medical decisions. Marriage affects your health insurance benefits. Marriage affects pensions.
Marriage affects who has a say in the child's life.
The main thing about marriage is that it is proof of commitment to a relationship. You know how you feel but you don't know how he feels. All you know is what he tells you and if he is not fully committed, he is going to tell you whatever makes his life easier and not necessarily what protects you; then you are going to believe everything he says because you are in love.
I'm a little sad at the idea that your ideal man is "one who hasn't left you, yet." That says volumes. Where is love? Where is happiness? Maybe that is what your grandmother is picking up on -- the lack of joy. Personally, I think there should be something more to a relationship than "he hasn't left, yet".
I think you've got the wrong idea all the way around. Just because a person isn't romantic doesn't mean they can't still be "hot" for you and treat you as you should be treated. My boyfriend will never be the type to plan a surprise romantic trip for two to _____, but that's fine. That's not something I need in a relationship. He will, however, always treat me respectfully, and go out of his way to show me how much he loves me. My grandmothers husband was the exact same way. In their 50+ years of marriage, he rarely ever did anything romantic. In fact, she loves to tell the story about the gift he gave her on their 10th anniversary: a new toilet seat, because the old one broke. So no, a lack of romance is not a HUGE RED FLAG. I can name red flags, because I've seen my share of them.
I'm not saying that we are going to have children anytime soon, but it's something we have been discussing more. It's not at all a matter of wanting to play house. It's wanting to create another person out of love, and raise them so that they know nothing but love. Had you asked me five years ago if I wanted children, I would have said no. I had relationships ends in the past because they wanted children and I didn't. But the way I see it: they weren't right for me, for bringing a child into the world with. I don't have any doubts about my current partner.
If and when we get married, it needs to be because we made the choice together - not because my grandmother or anybody else coerced/guilted us into doing it. The only thing I want is to have the support of my family. As said, I don't have much family left, and my grandmother is my closest living bond.
I'll keep it short, since you are not going to listen anyway. Maybe somebody else will.
1) Love is not enough, love is never enough. It's a foundation, but EVERYTHING else has to be built by hand with smart decisions and logic and reason and attention to REALITY.
2) If your boyfriend wants to move in with you without marrying you, you are being DISRESPECTED and REJECTED on a very fundamental level. It's ironic that you can't see it, or actually, are choosing not to see it. But your grandmother sees it.
3) Lack of romance early in a relationship is the KISS OF DEATH. And don't say you don't want it and don't care about it. Because that would be a lie. The essence of romance is hero worship and heroine worship. If that is not desired or expressed, than what you have is a friend or roommate. Not someone to build a life worth living with.
You have 2 red flags, but you are choosing colorblindness because the alternative is too hard.
1) He is NOT offering to lay his life down for you and commit to you until you die.
2) He is NOT romantic early in the relationship, indicating a profound issue with bonding that will never improve.
Finally, you don't get to demand the approval of your family to do the wrong thing. It won't happen. Grandma's been around, and she has seen your future, and knows what's going to happen, and loves you and does not want that to happen to you.
But forget about the old bag. She's just an "out-of-touch" old person whose antiquated and irrelevant ideas don't pertain to modern problems and modern girls.
Except for the fact that humans are humans, our nature is our nature, and nothing has really changed except for gadgets, and we still need the same basic things as men and women in 10,000 B.C.
No romance, no ring, and no date. And that's what you are looking FORWARD to moving in with? Why? You don't think you deserve better?
You must have some doubt, you are looking for approval from grandma and from strangers on City-Data. You are questioning. You are disturbed about the lack of support and wondering why it is not automatically forthcoming. You are not confident you are doing the right thing, you are HOPING you are doing the right thing. The distance between hope and reality is DISAPPOINTMENT. And THAT is what you are setting yourself up for.
If you are not going to get married and lay your lives down for each other, formally, legally, and in front of those you love, and then design a schedule that permits you to be home to raise the kids you plan to have, then by all means get married, but have your tubes tied. Your grandmother is probably right and the fact that her disapproval "gets to you" on some level is what it feels like when something you don't want to hear clashes with your own internal knowledge that something is right. The external disapproval is in actual agreement with something inside you that you don't want to face. That's why it's annoying and that's why you are vexed.
Which is all fine if you two want to waste your lives and play house. The only ones being hurt and the only ones wasting time will be you and your shack-up.
But if kids are part of the plan, you have a moral obligation to commit to each other for life, get legally married, and design a lifestlye where you are NOT working and are raising your kids in person each and every day.
Finally, the "he is not the most romantic guy" is a HUGE RED FLAG that you should not ignore under any circumstances. If he's not hot for you now, and don't say that he is because you already said that he isn't, then within a few years you will be facing the hell of a sexless shackup with 2 screaming kids, no commitment, and a whole schitload of bills. Listen to your grandma. When you start living the hell I have described, and based on your current plan you will, grandma will probably be dead and you won't be able to transition back from playing house to playing misunderstood overaged adolescent when the "not so romantic" dude suddenly becomes very romantic with the hot neighbor or barmaid.
Marriage is NOT just a piece of paper, it's literally a philosophy of life and a conscious decision to stick out whatever may come (and trust me whatever WILL COME) and support each other until the bitter end. If you don't want that, then you are prima facie not right for each other. And certainly not right for bringing new life into the world.
And as far as legal marriage, you may make the escapist claim that it is not something that you want. But, if he was the right guy, and you were the right girl, NOTHING LESS WOULD DO.
Aside from all your usual BS, this part caught my attention. "Romance" and "sex" are not the same thing. Being romantic and being "hot" for someone are not the same thing. They can be related, but are not synonamous.
OP, take a good look at Marc's posting history before paying any attention to anything he says. You are old enough to make your own decisions. I really can't tell if your g-ma is just being old school and over protective, or if there is something about your BF and/or you that she sees that we don't. From your post it sounds like she is just older and has a tradtional way of thinking (i.e. you don't live together before marriage). Is there some reason that you are thinking about having kids but not thinking about marriage?
Aside from all your usual BS, this part caught my attention. "Romance" and "sex" are not the same thing. Being romantic and being "hot" for someone are not the same thing. They can be related, but are not synonamous.
OP, take a good look at Marc's posting history before paying any attention to anything he says. You are old enough to make your own decisions. I really can't tell if your g-ma is just being old school and over protective, or if there is something about your BF and/or you that she sees that we don't.
Concentrate on the philosophy, not making personal attacks. People don't learn from personal attacks. So in this case, you want to make the argument that it is good and beneficial for the poster to move in with her boyfriend without a commitment and ignore the advice of her grandmother. Stay with that. Personally attacking posters you disagree with will not advance the philosophy. So stay focused and concentrate on why shacking up is good for people and good for the poster.
As far as sex and romance, the poster is settling for one without the other, and that is a big mistake. You don't choose a mate who cannot demonstrate love and respect through tender romantic behavior. You don't choose a mate who doesn't demonstrate love and respect by making a tangible, explicit, lifelong commitment (marriage). A lifetime is a long time, and lack of romance is not something to be accepted at the beginning of a relationship. It is a red flag, in fact, it is a STOP SIGN. It is an indicator of a serious psychological problem, and is a DEAL BREAKER.
That is my advice. Let's summarize. Dude wants to hump me, doesn't want to buy me flowers. Dude wants to move in with me, and SPLIT EXPENSES with me, but does not want to marry me. Is this a good and healthy path to follow? Does my grandmother, who is my mother, who loves me and raised me, and presumably has my best interests at heart, think I am following a good and healthy path? Does the smart real estate agent on the Internet think it's a good idea?
The answers are no, no, and no.
Now, tell her why it's a good idea to move in with and plan children with a person without a commitment, and without romance. Make that case. No personal attacks, just making cases. Can you do that?
Statistically there is something to what she is saying. Marriages of individuals who live together before marriage have a 40% higher divorce rate than those who don't.
I did not really see myself getting married when I was younger. My husband moved in with me while we were dating in our mid 20s and eventually we married. We divorced after seven years of marriage.
I would not advise you to ever have kids (married or not) -- unless you are fully capable of supporting those kids completely on your own. Daycare can cost as much as your mortgage payment these days. Marriages and relationships may not last - but kids are forever.
Concentrate on the philosophy, not making personal attacks. People don't learn from personal attacks. So in this case, you want to make the argument that it is good and beneficial for the poster to move in with her boyfriend without a commitment and ignore the advice of her grandmother. Stay with that. Personally attacking posters you disagree with will not advance the philosophy. So stay focused and concentrate on why shacking up is good for people and good for the poster.
Show me where Kibbiekat said that.
I'll make it easy for you: she didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat
Aside from all your usual BS, this part caught my attention. "Romance" and "sex" are not the same thing. Being romantic and being "hot" for someone are not the same thing. They can be related, but are not synonamous.
OP, take a good look at Marc's posting history before paying any attention to anything he says. You are old enough to make your own decisions. I really can't tell if your g-ma is just being old school and over protective, or if there is something about your BF and/or you that she sees that we don't. From your post it sounds like she is just older and has a tradtional way of thinking (i.e. you don't live together before marriage). Is there some reason that you are thinking about having kids but not thinking about marriage?
Concentrate on the philosophy, not making personal attacks. People don't learn from personal attacks. So in this case, you want to make the argument that it is good and beneficial for the poster to move in with her boyfriend without a commitment and ignore the advice of her grandmother. Stay with that. Personally attacking posters you disagree with will not advance the philosophy. So stay focused and concentrate on why shacking up is good for people and good for the poster.
As far as sex and romance, the poster is settling for one without the other, and that is a big mistake. You don't choose a mate who cannot demonstrate love and respect through tender romantic behavior. You don't choose a mate who doesn't demonstrate love and respect by making a tangible, explicit, lifelong commitment (marriage). A lifetime is a long time, and lack of romance is not something to be accepted at the beginning of a relationship. It is a red flag, in fact, it is a STOP SIGN. It is an indicator of a serious psychological problem, and is a DEAL BREAKER.
That is my advice. Let's summarize. Dude wants to hump me, doesn't want to buy me flowers. Dude wants to move in with me, and SPLIT EXPENSES with me, but does not want to marry me. Is this a good and healthy path to follow? Does my grandmother, who is my mother, who loves me and raised me, and presumably has my best interests at heart, think I am following a good and healthy path? Does the smart real estate agent on the Internet think it's a good idea?
The answers are no, no, and no.
Now, tell her why it's a good idea to move in with and plan children with a person without a commitment, and without romance. Make that case. No personal attacks, just making cases. Can you do that?
blah, blah, blah. First of all, I never said that. Apparently you focused only on one sentence and ignored the rest of my post that wasn't about you.
Part of me is very traditional. I didn't live with my husband before we were married, and it wasn't really an accepted practice in the older generation of my family. At the time, I felt that if you really want to start your life togeter, get married.
I'm also pretty liberal, for lack of a better word. I know there is more than one way to do things, and that it is none of my business what 2 30-ish year old people do in their personal life. Many, if not most couple live together before marriage these days. It is a good "next" step in many cases, and gives you the experience without legally binding yourself to that person. Heck, part of me thinks marriage itself is outdated and unnecessary.
For me, it worked to just get married (although we practically lived together for months before). For many others, it works to live together first. Who are you to tell the OP what to do? She didn't come here asking for advice on that. She came asking for advice on how to deal with her old fashioned grand mother, whose only real point is that it's sinful.
Grandma's are the best. She's just looking out for you. Just listen to her - tell her you appreciate how much she loves and cares about you but you need to experience life now and IF YOU DO make a mistake it's all part of the journey of life.
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