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I am sure you would feel different if you were standing in line....say at the DMV.....and the wait time is 5 hours because of deteriorating service levels since there is no threat of the state employees losing their job due to protections.
Like I said, it is easy to see the political flow on this board and the regular Republican bashing. In the end, it really isn't getting you anywhere.
It's pretty much nothing more than getting rid of what due process protections there are to make political firings of career staff easier. If it passes expect to see an increase in turnover and employee morale drop lower than it is already.
That is an astonishingly naive understanding of both public and private sector workplaces.
That and they'll just get someone else in the department to cover the duties of that position in addition to their own. Reduction through attrition works the same way.
And due process is guaranteed to public workers so I'm glad someone brought it up so I don't have to read the rest of this thread. The government firing someone is an act of the government depriving someone of their property which is a basic liberty. Having not read the article I'll stop there.
But, what you said about private employees is different. It doesn't take 400+ days to get the average at-will case thrown out because without a contract you don't have any rights. Public servants may not have a contract either but their rights are the same as the rest of us. Due process like you said. Not because it is a fundamental employee right but because it is the government doing the acting.
And due process is guaranteed to public workers so I'm glad someone brought it up so I don't have to read the rest of this thread. The government firing someone is an act of the government depriving someone of their property which is a basic liberty. Having not read the article I'll stop there.
But, what you said about private employees is different. It doesn't take 400+ days to get the average at-will case thrown out because without a contract you don't have any rights. Public servants may not have a contract either but their rights are the same as the rest of us. Due process like you said. Not because it is a fundamental employee right but because it is the government doing the acting.
Why should there be any difference between employee rights for public employees versus private employees. Whatever protections are put in place, shouldn't there be consistency and fairness to all.
janster, I don't know if it would be considered having "more rights" than private sector employees, but one very important issue in government vs. private sector is undue political influence. Generally rank and file government employees should not be subject to firing/disciplinary action for their political beliefs and actions, and this is encoded in state personnel policies.
But more to the point of this thread, the issue I have with this (as I noted in an earlier post) is that McCrory is suggesting the wrong solution for the problem. If the appeals process is inefficient or broken, then take the necessary steps to address the causes and fix them. His suggestion is to simply reduce the number of positions that are allowed to appeal. This is akin to saying "Cancer treatments are long and drawn out, and because of that we're going to cut in half the number of victims who are eligible for treatment." Of course that makes no sense, but that's what he's suggesting here.
It's not a civil right to leach off the government payroll. If you suck at your job, if you are corrupt, you should get FIRED!!! The same way Harry Jones got booted in a public forum. That's what I call fundemental change.
Last edited by ClevelandMike; 05-09-2013 at 06:53 AM..
Reason: typo
It's not a civil right to leach off the government payroll. If you suck at your job, if you are corrupt, you should get FIRED!!! The same way Harry Jones got booted in a public forum. That's what I call fundemental change.
I actually agree with you for once (although I don't know of this Harry Jones to whom you refer)...if you suck and/or are corrupt, you should be fired. And no one is suggesting otherwise in this thread from what I can tell. The issue is not whether someone deserves to be fired, but rather what (and how many) positions should be exempt from state personnel policies designed to protect employees from wrongful termination.
Why should there be any difference between employee rights for public employees versus private employees. Whatever protections are put in place, shouldn't there be consistency and fairness to all.
Definitely. Private sector employees need to fight harder to ensure their rights, like public sector employees have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arbyunc
But more to the point of this thread, the issue I have with this (as I noted in an earlier post) is that McCrory is suggesting the wrong solution for the problem. If the appeals process is inefficient or broken, then take the necessary steps to address the causes and fix them. His suggestion is to simply reduce the number of positions that are allowed to appeal. This is akin to saying "Cancer treatments are long and drawn out, and because of that we're going to cut in half the number of victims who are eligible for treatment." Of course that makes no sense, but that's what he's suggesting here.
Exactly. The right thing to do, if it's really such a massive problem, would be to hire more appeals judges to process the casework faster. This is all about looking at a stat and fixing the stat without addressing the underlying issue.
Last edited by J. Pederman; 05-09-2013 at 10:14 AM..
janster, I don't know if it would be considered having "more rights" than private sector employees, but one very important issue in government vs. private sector is undue political influence. Generally rank and file government employees should not be subject to firing/disciplinary action for their political beliefs and actions, and this is encoded in state personnel policies.
But more to the point of this thread, the issue I have with this (as I noted in an earlier post) is that McCrory is suggesting the wrong solution for the problem. If the appeals process is inefficient or broken, then take the necessary steps to address the causes and fix them. His suggestion is to simply reduce the number of positions that are allowed to appeal. This is akin to saying "Cancer treatments are long and drawn out, and because of that we're going to cut in half the number of victims who are eligible for treatment." Of course that makes no sense, but that's what he's suggesting here.
There are "politics" in the private sector as well. Ask anyone that has worked in a large corporation. McCrory, just like any other leader, gave an executive overview. There was no "detailed" plan listed in the article. What we do see on this thread is a bunch of people jumping to conclusions. It really is not that hard to lay out a very simplified plan for appeals. Other state governments do this, private business does this, and the state of North Carolina can do this as well.
I am sure you would feel different if you were standing in line....say at the DMV.....and the wait time is 5 hours because of deteriorating service levels since there is no threat of the state employees losing their job due to protections.
Like I said, it is easy to see the political flow on this board and the regular Republican bashing. In the end, it really isn't getting you anywhere.
You take one item from the article and dwell on it which, is your perogative. You are naive to believe a policy such as this would bring top notch service into the government sector. It doesn't work that way or that well in the private sector.
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