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Dude....don't try to masquerade your Charlotte homerism as being a "profressional" at MSA/CSA/Demography.
Own your biases. They are glaring. It's a human characteristic we all have them. One of yours is "Charlotte bigger/better than Raleigh/The Triangle...Triangle much smaller". No judgement in having said biases as we all have them; but trying to "justify" the "bigness/betterness" with this type of "analysis" is....silly.
What has my homerism got to do with Greenville, SC? Greenville has nothing to do with Charlotte. I am only sating that Cary is not that much more dense than Greenvile - 500 per square approximately. But even if I say, okay, Cary is much more dense, what is your point? And analysis is not silly. Some on these forums from different cities would do well to do analysis and report facts. But I don't care to argue over Greenville, SC and Cary. It is not that big of a deal to me. Cary is only 60 square miles. 60 square miles x 500 people per square mile is only 3,000 people, That is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme- just saying. Now if it important for you to hear me say that Cary is a suburb and it is more dense than Greenville, the central city then okay it is more dense. Like I said, it is not that big of a deal to me either way, It is very subjective, Each of us can have an opinion. But Wake is a county of over 1 million, and Raleigh is less than 500k so the residents of Wake have got to live somewhere - some city or cities unless they are in unincorporated areas. But , as I said, it is not worth arguing over. let's choose to argue over something of more substance.
Well fwiw, one Census Bureau fact that is wrong is it’s called the Raleigh-Durham-Cary CSA.
You should educate yourself. I have been studying population data probably longer than you have been alive. I am not promoting any agenda. My goal is to just get the facts straight and not let too much BS get out.
The Census Bureau has two metro designations for large metros. First is the standard and that is the MSA or Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area and the second is the CSA or Combined Statistical Area.
For Durham or Orange County to be part of the Raleigh MSA then 25 percent of the non-farm work force of Durham County must commute into work into Wake County, the central county. 25 percent of Durham County's work force does not commute into Wake County so Durham is not part of the Raleigh MSA. That is why the Raleigh/Cary MSA has a population of 1,423,982. The Raleigh/Cary MSA consists of Wake, Franklin, and Johnston Counties.
The Raleigh-Durham-Cary CSA consists of nine counties- Wake, Franklin, Johnston, Durham, Orange, Chatham, Granville, Person, and Vance. The CSA population is 2,117,636,
For a county to be part of the Raleigh CSA, 15 percent of the non-farm workforce must commute into the central county or Wake. Below is from the Raleigh Chamber's own web site:
"The Triangle region, as defined for statistical purposes as the Raleigh–Durham–Cary CSA, comprises nine counties, although the U.S. Census Bureau divided the region into two metropolitan statistical areas and one micropolitan area in 2003. The Raleigh-Cary metropolitan area comprises Wake, Franklin, and Johnston Counties; the Durham-Chapel Hill metropolitan area comprises Durham, Orange, Chatham, Granville, and Person Counties; and the Henderson micropolitan area comprises Vance County."
As I said the Raleigh/Cary MSA is 3 counties just as the above info from their website states. Of course, their website is very busy. You have to read down to find the info. They want people to believe that the metro is a nine county CSA region of over 2 million. Cities do this crap on their sites to inflate their worth.
That’s a lot of words to admit you were wrong to call it the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill CSA earlier. I was being tongue-in-cheek incidentally, but wowzer.
What has my homerism got to do with Greenville, SC? Greenville has nothing to do with Charlotte. I am only sating that Cary is not that much more dense than Greenvile - 500 per square approximately. But even if I say, okay, Cary is much more dense, what is your point? And analysis is not silly. Some on these forums from different cities would do well to do analysis and report facts. But I don't care to argue over Greenville, SC and Cary. It is not that big of a deal to me. Cary is only 60 square miles. 60 square miles x 500 people per square mile is only 3,000 people, That is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme- just saying. Now if it important for you to hear me say that Cary is a suburb and it is more dense than Greenville, the central city then okay it is more dense. Like I said, it is not that big of a deal to me either way, It is very subjective, Each of us can have an opinion. But Wake is a county of over 1 million, and Raleigh is less than 500k so the residents of Wake have got to live somewhere - some city or cities unless they are in unincorporated areas. But , as I said, it is not worth arguing over. let's choose to argue over something of more substance.
But since you are throwing wall of texts out, I’ll add some more errors. 60 x 500 is 30,000.
Well fwiw, one Census Bureau fact that is wrong is it’s called the Raleigh-Durham-Cary CSA.
See my long post above to clear it up for you and for you to get the facts straight. If you do not understand it then I will try to explain. Cities put out a lot of false info to make their metros look bigger than they are. For example the RDU area refers to itself as the Triangle so they can add as many counties as they like. On their website, I had difficulty finding the counties in the MSA. It was way down the page and buried. They are pushing this agenda that their metro is 2.1 million. The CSA is, but the MSA is the standard and it is 1.4 million. But their websites put out there the over and over front and center that the metro nine counties and 2.1 million. You have to look hard to find the MSA counties and population.
Years ago Charlotte used to use Metrolina on the Chamber's info, that was before the metro hit one million. They used 12 counties in Metrolina to get the one million population desired. The metro was no where near 12 counties. This was way back in the 1970s. Once the metro crossed the one million mark, the Chamber dropped the Metrolina crap.
Raleigh is still doing crap for some reason. They are using Triangle population data sometimes and who knows what counties that consists of. And they promote the CSA as the metro population, but MSA is the standard. That is why the Census Bureau has not updated figures on CSA yet cause it is not the standard.
I don't have an agenda except I want people to know the truth instead of propaganda. But some are such homers they do not want to know the truth.
But since you are throwing wall of texts out, I’ll add some more errors. 60 x 500 is 30,000.
You are right and I will admit when I make a mistake. I am not going to hide, That changes things. 500 people per square mile makes a difference in this case. You are correct.
That’s a lot of words to admit you were wrong to call it the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill CSA earlier. I was being tongue-in-cheek incidentally, but wowzer.
What are you talking about? I am not wrong. I promise you that, Prove it. I made a mistake with density numbers, and I admit I made a mistake. My man told me and I admit it. But I have explained MSA and CSA pretty clearly. I hope you can understand.
You were calling the CSA by the wrong name and then shouting you wanted someone to find errors. So I pointed it out to lighten the mood (it’s Cary in the name, not Chapel Hill). You then went on a data dump for reasons I don’t know.
Incidentally the Triangle moniker predates the MSA split in 2003. No one is inventing anything. It’s true OMB guidelines have Raleigh and Durham with their own MSAs. It’s also true that Wake-Durham have the largest amount and percentage of commuters between any two counties in the state. Both things can and are true. It may offend your sensibilities that OMB parameters aren’t followed in all marketing material put out. I think you’ll live. Though I can only imagine the fallout when you see what Nielsen did to our media market.
I am going to move onto CSA data. There are 11 CSAs in NC & SC. I have listed them below. This data has not been updated yet by the Census Bureau. This is still estimates by the US Census Bureau. Below is each CSA and its population. T
I wanted to do this exercise myself so I could see where the population and growth in the two Carolinas growth in the two Carolinas is located. The population of the 11 CSAs is 11,887,853, and the total population of the two Carolinas is approximately 15 million. It is easy to see that most of the growth is in the Raleigh and Charlotte areas in NC and along the coast in Myrtle Beach and Charleston (Charleston not shown here because it has no CSA but go to MSA totals above to see Charleston) and Greenville areas in SC. I think it is important for residents in the Charlotte and Raleigh areas to be in contact with their sate reps to let them know that in these two areas we need more money allocated for transportation.
Also, I am not in disagreement with Raleigh folks. I know Raleigh is growing very rapidly. I am just a stickler for reporting the info through the eyes of the US Census Bureau. They are the authority. It is important for people to understand their terminology and classifications. But rapid growth is coming to Raleigh area and Charlotte, and we must get prepared with better transportation.
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