UND Fighting Sioux nickname (finally a non-oil field thread) (Center: home, schools)
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What do you guys think about the University of North Dakota Fighting Soiux nickname? Some of the Soiux want the name kept and some aren't fond of it. The NCAA wants them to get rid of it.
I don't really see what's so horrible about it since the name isn't derogatory in any sort of a way. It seems like an honorable name to commemorate a culture. ("We were proud warriors,"--what's wrong with that?)
As many are likely aware...this controversy has been going on for nearly 10 years. The NCAA ruling originally was that those schools with Native American nicknames needed to get approval from those tribes to continue to use it. In ND there are two areas of Sioux....Spirit Lake (which did vote and did approve use of it) and Standing Rock (whose leadership has not allowed a vote and whose leadership doesnt support it). UND and the NCAA agreed to a term that would expire the nickname I believe in 2011 if approval wasnt granted. The state legislature stepped in and overrode the State Board of Higher Education and UND and said the university had to keep it.
Problem comes into play is that the NCAA must pressure on many schools to not schedule UND because of the nickname. Hockey program is big and not so much affected....but where the problem comes into play is the others sports, namely football and basketball. UND has tried to get into a conference for all sports but hockey since their move to Division I FCS several years ago, but the nickname controversy has kept them from getting into any conference.
UND did finally get an invite to the Big Sky Conference for the 2012-13 academic year due to the agreement that the nickname would be retired in this academic year (2011-12). With the state stepping in with their law on the name and the continued battle with Spirit Lake, Big Sky is now a big skiddish. The ND legislature will have a special session starting next week and will take up a vote to repeal the law they passed last spring and thus allow UND to continue the process of retiring the nickname.
Regardless of anyone's opinion on the nickname, the problem is the controversy will severely hurt the university athletic teams (except for hockey which is a Division I power) due to possible lack of conference affiliation and schools that wont schedule them. I believe for the good of the university, the name must be retired as the controversy only weighs us down. I believe we should go with no nickname....what is wrong with just being University of North Dakota. People will still wear their Sioux apparrel and yell Sioux at games, but the university will not officially sponsor it.
Many agree that the NCAA has been very two-faced about this whole Native American nickname stuff over the past 10 years. They let cash cow teams such as Florida State keep theirs (they supposedly worked out an agreement with the Seminole Tribe to get approval in return for some share in merchandise money) but their chanting and Indian on the horse they have is way more offensive than anything UND does. We dont have a mascot.
Illinois was able to keep the Illini name, if they got rid of the mascot. And Central Michigan Univ did get approval to keep their Chippewa nickname. Same with the Utah Utes I think.
As it stand now...the only university team that uses the Sioux and the Indian head logo is the hockey program. All other sports go by Univ of North Dakota and no nickname nor logo is on uniforms that I am aware of (thinking of bball and fball).
The Big Sky Conference isn't that skittish about the nickname contraversy. The issue with conference is that they will have a member who is not eligible to host any post season play. Due to the NCAA ruling, ND is ineligible to host ANY tournament or playoff games of which the Big Sky would get a cut. Basically, if ND were to make the football tourney (doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon as NDSU is the football power), it automatically loses any bids and has to play on the road every game of the tourney. As football tends to have some advantage to the home team, this makes ND's football program a statistical loser. The Big Sky does not have hockey and never will as no other conference teams other than Portland State and Weber State can get any ice. Missoula and Bozeman do not have hockey rinks anymore. The ones they did have cannot support Div I hockey.
I think they are more concerned about the hockey fight soaking up any available funds to improve the football/basketball facilities which the Big Sky does get a cut from if there were to be any post-season play. As a former Bobcat staffer, I think you need better football facilities or always be second fiddle to NDSU. On second thought, we do play ND every year as "rivalry" (I poo-poo this as ND and MSU have rarely ever played each other) but we do need another tomato can to replace the annual game against Northern Colorado.
Whether you are in favor of the nickname or not, the basic fact is that the Ncaa is a private voluntary organization . It is not a government agency so there isn't an issue of government coercion. The basic Ncaa may well have it a monopoly but it doesn't change the fact that schools choose to belong and thus the Ncaa can set its own rules.
Whether you are in favor of the nickname or not, the basic fact is that the Ncaa is a private voluntary organization . It is not a government agency so there isn't an issue of government coercion. The basic Ncaa may well have it a monopoly but it doesn't change the fact that schools choose to belong and thus the Ncaa can set its own rules.
Agree....the NCAA is the only game in town....and it has its own rules. But for a small university to not follow their rules, means almost a death penalty for UND sports (outside of hockey which will always have the money).
The Big Sky Conference isn't that skittish about the nickname contraversy. The issue with conference is that they will have a member who is not eligible to host any post season play. Due to the NCAA ruling, ND is ineligible to host ANY tournament or playoff games of which the Big Sky would get a cut. Basically, if ND were to make the football tourney (doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon as NDSU is the football power), it automatically loses any bids and has to play on the road every game of the tourney. As football tends to have some advantage to the home team, this makes ND's football program a statistical loser. The Big Sky does not have hockey and never will as no other conference teams other than Portland State and Weber State can get any ice. Missoula and Bozeman do not have hockey rinks anymore. The ones they did have cannot support Div I hockey.
I think they are more concerned about the hockey fight soaking up any available funds to improve the football/basketball facilities which the Big Sky does get a cut from if there were to be any post-season play. As a former Bobcat staffer, I think you need better football facilities or always be second fiddle to NDSU. On second thought, we do play ND every year as "rivalry" (I poo-poo this as ND and MSU have rarely ever played each other) but we do need another tomato can to replace the annual game against Northern Colorado.
Agree....Big Sky doesnt have an issue with nickname itself but for the ramifications if UND keeps it. The school itself would have a black eye and as you stated cannot host championships. It is interesting that a few years ago the football team jerseys and the Alerus Center stopped using Sioux. I havent been to a football game in years, but hard pressed to see any Sioux signage there I believe. (at least from what I have seen via TV)
My point is there is a time to stand and a time to let it go, and I think for the good of the university it is time to let it go. Yes the hockey supporters are the most ardent supporters as UND Hockey is king around here. But other sports and athletes should not suffer. UND is moving to the National Collegiate Hockey Conf next year, as the UM and UW move to the Big 10.
There is strong desire and excitement about UND moving to Big Sky (all but hockey of course)....it is hoped someday with the continual conference shuffling that NDSU, SDSU and USD can move to the Big Sky.
The problem I have is that the NCAA gave a time limit for the vote but the Standing Rock tribe will not allow it. Polls indicate that the support for the nickname would pass. To me the NCAA basically set the vote up to fail by providing a loophole for opponents of the name. I've always said that I would support dropping the name if either tribe voted no. If the Standing Rock council is so confident in their position then let your members vote.
I would recommend not attending a college football game or any football game if you can't stomach drunk idiots yelling profanity. The students are the third or fourth most important fans at the game. The general populace is viewed as cannon fodder by the NCAA. I personally will be razzing MontanaGriz for the next two weeks. No profanity on the forums.
I would recommend not attending a college football game or any football game if you can't stomach drunk idiots yelling profanity. The students are the third or fourth most important fans at the game. The general populace is viewed as cannon fodder by the NCAA. I personally will be razzing MontanaGriz for the next two weeks. No profanity on the forums.
Are you going to razz him by degrading a race of people?
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