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For instance, you can't force someone to live in Scranton and not live in the suburbs if they prefer that lifestyle over what the city has to offer.
That's what people aren't getting, and I don't want to seem like SWB here, but until recently there was NO lifestyle in the downtown. Unless you could being a vagrant a life style, then I would be wrong. You won't get people downtown without a few attractions, even if they're only 9-5. I'm not saying anybody else is wrong about money needing to be spent elsewhere, but that doesn't mean that the downtown doesn't need it as well.
Its not what we're not getting its about what you are not seeing is that no matter how much money you throw at the downtown nor how many koz's you give out, if the taxing impact on the business is not favorable that business WILL leave after its koz status is up. The taxing impact also MAKES IT HARD on the smaller shops and boutiques that are struggling to get by. If they want to revive the downtown then maybe they should start with reducing some of the business and wage taxes in the city. Throwing money at the problem will not fix it and thats what you are not getting nor is SWB. They threw clsoe $400,000,000 in long term debt at the downtown and its not working. How much more do you think they should throw at it? That figure is going to cost "US" a 93.4% tax increase over three years. I know some feel that the tax burden is not that much and that the residents should be happy but also you must remember we're the ones paying it. It will continue to climb. They keep throwing everything at these business's to get them to come to Scranton, but they never give them any reason to stay. You can only avoid the taxes for soo long then they have to be realized and when they are, the business will move to Dickson City or somewhere else. They'll move to city that does not have the high wage tax for its employees. They'll move to a city that does not have the merchatile tax. They'll move to city that does generally put a large tax burden on the business's within its limits. While Scranton is bleeding business's and residents and at alarming rate these other towns are growing and are able to maintain the business's within their limits. WHY?????????????? Do they have better bookstores or coffee shops? Do they have better parks? Do they have tree lined streets and no cul da sac developments? Do they have better festivals? Do they have a historic large downtown area for redevelopment? NO, NO, NO, NO and NO they do not. THEY HAVE A FAVORABLE TAX IMPACT FOR THE BUSINESS'S AND RESIDENTS WITH GOOD STREETS AND SERVICES. PERIOD. No matter how much money that you throw at our downtown you'll get nothing for it. Until the tax impacts here in the city of Scranton are reduced on the business's they will have no reason to stay when they're koz is up. Existing and some older companies have moved out of the city. Quints,Scrantontimes corp HQ have moved to Wilkes Barre. The McCann School of Business is moving to Dickson City as well. They will all continue to leave until we give them a good financial reason to stay.
Exactly. That high wage tax is killing a lot of people and is a big reason people are moving, businesses as well. I get $22 a week taken out of my pay every week because of it. That's $1,144 annually for nothing. I hope that when the new council is in place, they will try to pass a motion to get that wage tax reduced. It really should not be that high, but because of Doherty's mis-management of money, it is what is.
As someone who has their house for sale in a rural area and looking to relocate closer to the Scranton/Dunmore area, I'll share why I have eliminated Scranton.
While looking to lower my expenses in this move, I will get rid of association dues. I currently pay $2,000. in Real Estate tax, plus about $2,000. in ammenities and sewer and water fees. I'm hoping to find a house with aabout $3,000. in taxes, which would save me $1,000. a yr. I also pay for a private bus for my daughter, which cost $1,000. a yr. If I move into the North Pocono area, that bus would be free. Savings so far $2,000. Slapping a wage tax on my husband and I would eat up my $2,000. savings and then some. It would eat up the vacation that I never seem to have the money for right now.
Aside from the $$ aspect of the decision, I find the properties in Scranton too small for my needs. I need close to 1/2 an acre, that just can't be found in Scranton in my price range. I will be either buying a house and adding an in-law suite, or I'll be building a new modular to suite my needs. I will most likely have a 3 car garage. I'm not saying homes are run down in Scranton, but I also know from experience that buying an older home can turn into a MONEY PIT. Been there...done that. A new or newer home just needs the mortgage paid and frees up what little free time we have to enjoy our home and family instead of becoming a slave to the house.
Moving from a rural area to the city is a move some are just not ready for. A more suburban setting is what I'm looking for.
No politics involved!
As someone who has their house for sale in a rural area and looking to relocate closer to the Scranton/Dunmore area, I'll share why I have eliminated Scranton.
While looking to lower my expenses in this move, I will get rid of association dues. I currently pay $2,000. in Real Estate tax, plus about $2,000. in ammenities and sewer and water fees. I'm hoping to find a house with aabout $3,000. in taxes, which would save me $1,000. a yr. I also pay for a private bus for my daughter, which cost $1,000. a yr. If I move into the North Pocono area, that bus would be free. Savings so far $2,000. Slapping a wage tax on my husband and I would eat up my $2,000. savings and then some. It would eat up the vacation that I never seem to have the money for right now.
Aside from the $$ aspect of the decision, I find the properties in Scranton too small for my needs. I need close to 1/2 an acre, that just can't be found in Scranton in my price range. I will be either buying a house and adding an in-law suite, or I'll be building a new modular to suite my needs. I will most likely have a 3 car garage. I'm not saying homes are run down in Scranton, but I also know from experience that buying an older home can turn into a MONEY PIT. Been there...done that. A new or newer home just needs the mortgage paid and frees up what little free time we have to enjoy our home and family instead of becoming a slave to the house.
Moving from a rural area to the city is a move some are just not ready for. A more suburban setting is what I'm looking for.
No politics involved!
I totally respect your opinion, Donna, and I doubt anyone would consider slamming you for it. Some people, like myself, wouldn't mind paying the extra $22 per week that Ed currently pays if we determined the benefits of not being forced to use a vehicle as frequently as I do currently here in the suburb of Pittston outweighed the cost of a higher wage tax. Others cringe when they see it. I personally agree that 3.4% is far to high for a wage tax, considering most nearby communities are only around 1.0%. I'd love to see the wage tax reduced to around 1.7%, half of what it currently is, by both eliminating wasteful spending and by finding new sources of revenues, such as enacting an amusement tax (which was proposed by Ms. Evans) and/or levying more taxes upon suburban commuters who utilize city services and amenities without currently paying for them. I'll agree with Dan that the wage tax in Scranton is out-of-control, and by halving it the Electric City could make itself more competitive with neighboring towns in attracting new residents. Property taxes in the city are currently in-line or even lower when compared with many surrounding communities, so I don't see a 93% or so rise in the city's portion of property taxes as being that big of a deal---it would bring slightly below-average tax bills up to the average range. However, the wage tax truly is a black eye that hampers residential growth here.
I'd also like to reinforce when you stated that the housing stock in the city isn't run-down. I totally agree. If anything I'm impressed that for a city that is abandoning itself like the plague that there are so few unkempt homes and neighborhoods there. The worst homes, many of which are in South Side, are currently being razed, and when compared to very unkempt-looking neighborhoods in Wilkes-Barre, Pittston, Hazleton, and Carbondale, Scrantonians should consider themselves lucky if they only have one distressed-looking property per block.
As far as you're concerned, I LOVE PA, you might want to check into my own area of Greater Pittston. Housing prices here are rising steadily (our own home has doubled in value since 1996), but they are still affordable. We're only a 10-15 minute drive from either Scranton or Wilkes-Barre. I personally don't like living here due to all of the growth and congestion, but if you don't mind driving everywhere, then there are plenty of newer homes here on larger lots.
Some people, like myself, wouldn't mind paying the extra $22 per week that Ed currently pays if we determined the benefits of not being forced to use a vehicle as frequently as I do currently here in the suburb of Pittston outweighed the cost of a higher wage tax.
I don't see a 93% or so rise in the city's portion of property taxes as being that big of a deal---
Paul honestly what part of the city do you think that your going to live in and be able to walk to work all the time? Your 20 so walking up and down those hills sounds great but your the minority in that one. I now that I would love to walk home after a long day in the office up hill all the way. You claim to be so green and so anti-car but that doesn't stop you from driving all over creation to take pics does it.
You claim that you would have no problem paying that wage tax and that you feel that the taxes in SCranton are not that bad. The median household income in Scranton is $30,000 so you tell me when do the taxes get to be too much? I started talking about business's and the business taxes that we have here in the city like the merchantile tax and you roll it back to the property taxes. I have said it before you currently do not pay property taxes and you currently do not have the wage tax taken from your pay check so you have no idea at all what kind of a impact that it has on the residents that DO HAVE to pay them. NO ONE WANTS TO PAY MORE TAXES SO THEY COULD WALK TO WORK, NOR DO THEY WANT TO PAY THEM WHEN THEY ARE GETTING NOTHING IN RETURN FOR THEM. This thread was started as a way to help the city with and thru ideas. If you would like to help then stop talking about the tax impact on the residents here since you have absolutely no idea how it is affecting the residents nor do you know what it feels like to have work hard everyday to have the city taken money away from your family. You do not know how hard it is to make ends meet when you have a family and property to worry about. Mortgage, insurance for your home, car and everything else, healthcare, school clothes and supplies and generally having to raise a family these are just soem of the things that families have to deal with everyday. When you have walked in our shoes then you can say what is too much or too little when it comes to taxes.
Paul, I live in the city too and I use my car probably as much as you do. There's nothing here in walking distance that I go to except my bank and a restaurant. I need my car to go to work and other places. So when you do move to the city you will still need your car. Not everything is here in Scranton, as you know, and you will have to drive to the surrounding areas for certain things. Scranton is not Manhattan. Like Dan said, until you start paying these taxes, you will never know the burden we're facing here in Scranton.
I couldn't agree more. More primary intent in posting this topic was to stimulate a discussion on what sorts of initiatives (business, recreational, etc.) would be helpful in making the city a more livable, vibrant place. Instead, it's just degenerated into a lot of bickering back and forth that is mostly irrelevant to the original post.
Looks like some posters need to be given their own private sub forum (one that the rest of us can just skip over) so that they can waste their posts there, droning on and on about the same stuff over and over, instead of hijacking and crapping all over every other thread...
Life's just too short, fellas.
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Some people, like myself, wouldn't mind paying the extra $22 per week that Ed currently pays if we determined the benefits of not being forced to use a vehicle as frequently as I do currently here in the suburb of Pittston outweighed the cost of a higher wage tax. Others cringe when they see it. I personally agree that 3.4% is far to high for a wage tax, considering most nearby communities are only around 1.0%. I'd love to see the wage tax reduced to around 1.7%, half of what it currently is, by both eliminating wasteful spending and by finding new sources of revenues, such as enacting an amusement tax (which was proposed by Ms. Evans) and/or levying more taxes upon suburban commuters who utilize city services and amenities without currently paying for them. I'll agree with Dan that the wage tax in Scranton is out-of-control, and by halving it the Electric City could make itself more competitive with neighboring towns in attracting new residents. Property taxes in the city are currently in-line or even lower when compared with many surrounding communities, so I don't see a 93% or so rise in the city's portion of property taxes as being that big of a deal---it would bring slightly below-average tax bills up to the average range. However, the wage tax truly is a black eye that hampers residential growth here. 
You claim to be so green and so anti-car but that doesn't stop you from driving all over creation to take pics does it. 
