unbuildable lot in wayne county (real estate, HOA, credit)

[Alfa72]

Hi,

a family member purchased a lot and it failed the perc test, don't ask me why lol and the worst part is it's in a community(not sure of the name). Is there a approved septic system method?

Thanks

[Wells5]

Originally Posted by Alfa72

Hi,

a family member purchased a lot and it failed the perc test, don't ask me why lol and the worst part is it's in a community(not sure of the name). Is there a approved septic system method?

Thanks

Has your relative talked to the local sewage enforcement officer? There are alternatives to the standard in ground septic system. I was told that a lot that doesn't perk can be made to perk over several years through digging up an area of the property to a certain depth and filling it with materials like sand and gravel, letting it settle and filling it up again. Call an excavation contractor.




You should also contact a local lawyer to determine if the seller of the lot can be sued for breach of implied warranty.

[Alfa72]

Originally Posted by Wells5

Has your relative talked to the local sewage enforcement officer? There are alternatives to the standard in ground septic system. I was told that a lot that doesn't perk can be made to perk over several years through digging up an area of the property to a certain depth and filling it with materials like sand and gravel, letting it settle and filling it up again. Call an excavation contractor.




You should also contact a local lawyer to determine if the seller of the lot can be sued for breach of implied warranty.

No but I will ask them to. I'll also tell them to call the excavation contractor. The property was purchased over 10 years ago and it just sat. What option is there if nothing can be built on it and no one wants to buy it? Does the community buy it back?

[PAhippo]

There's such a thing as a sand mound system but even that's not acceptable everywhere. If it's in a community do they have a community sewer system? Doesn't sound like it but doesn't hurt to ask.






I doubt the community would buy it back if they weren't the ones to sell it. Best case scenario he could sell it as an unbuildable lot. Some people want them.

[Nypafl4u]

Lots in communities are tough. I am in the exact same situation. Not sure if they will Perc well or not, but bought two them 10 or so years ago when the market was super low. Thought I might build on them but decided not too and never will. Now I am having a hard time selling them. At this point, I am willing to give give them away.
One is in Pocono Springs Estates and backs up to State land, so it is a great hunting lot.
The other is in Winonna Lakes and backs up to a drop off so no back neighbor's.
Both are very quiet and private.
I was told by one secretary at the county tax collection office who pulled me aside and quietly just said don't pay your taxes and it will eventually forclose. That scares me a bit from a credit position but I really don't want to nor easily can pay taxes each year and community dues on land I will never build on.
Anyone want a lot or two out there?
Looking for answers too.

[MikMal]

Originally Posted by Nypafl4u

....
One is in Pocono Springs Estates and backs up to State land, so it is a great hunting lot.
.....

What size is the lot? I would think that one bordering state game lands should be an easy sell. If nothing else, someone who hunts would have a place to park and camp (if that's permissible) during hunting season.

[Nypafl4u]

The are both about a half acre each. No camping permitted unortunetly. Most communities frown on that. It is a reason I am likely having such problems getting these properties sold or gifted.

[johnp292]

Originally Posted by Nypafl4u

The are both about a half acre each. No camping permitted unortunetly. Most communities frown on that. It is a reason I am likely having such problems getting these properties sold or gifted.

Are there neighbors? They may be interested in buying the land cheap to increase the property size, then they may be able to merge your lot into theirs and make it a single lot for HOA dues and and tax purposes. I saw this happen a few times when I lived in Saw Creek.

[Nypafl4u]

Originally Posted by johnp292

Are there neighbors? They may be interested in buying the land cheap to increase the property size, then they may be able to merge your lot into theirs and make it a single lot for HOA dues and and tax purposes. I saw this happen a few times when I lived in Saw Creek.

So far no luck with that. The in Pocono Springs has no one on either side. It looks like little building going on that road.

[wharton]

Sand mounds have become essentially a standard requirement in many rural parts of PA, and have been so for the last three, or four decades. There are several alternative methods of constructing an on-site system, and most vary from expensive to obscenely expensive. In the OP's case, the owner of the failed test can contact the township's SEO, or sewage enforcement officer. This person is responsible for enforcing statewide codes. They will know what alternatives have been successfully used in the area, and can give you a general sense of what the situation is, and if there is any real hope of success.

I bought lots and built homes in the region, for decades. In my final few years of business, I would only buy a potential lot after reviewing all septic documents with my septic installation contractor. I found many potential lots where the cost of a standard sand mound on a significant slope, or one that required a mound that was substantially over-sized, due to poor perk results, could quickly exceed the price of the lot. If the perk testing was bad enough, the price of an alternative system generally meant that the property was probably valueless forever, even if it was free. Sadly, the Poconos have thousands, maybe tens of thousands of lots that were inexpensive and buildable decades ago, when they were first created from raw forests, but are now worthless due to continually more restrictive codes, including excess slope, wetlands, flood zone, septic, setback issues, nonconforming lot size, etc. There are millions wasted in real estate taxes and HOA dues, paid every year by folks that plan on "building their dream place" one day, and have no clue that they are just throwing money at something that will never happen.

As for the comment about defaulting, it's pretty common. I did a lot of business with speculators who would buy land dirt cheap, then resell it to individuals and builders. They always hold the properties in arm's length shell companies. The reason was that they ended up holding some worthless liabilities, for many reasons, from properties that were declared unbuildable wetlands, to ones that failed perc. testing. They would just stop paying dues and taxes on those, and allowed them to be seized for back payments. In the end it is a strategy, and a black mark against a throw away company that was designed just to protect the real owner.