12-29-2010, 09:38 AM
5 posts, read
18,606 times
Reputation: 11
Hi all, I am not a resident of the NoVA area (currently live in Hampton Roads), but I was up in Maryland visiting a friend before Christmas. On my way home, I stopped by the Penderview Condos in Fairfax to say hi to a friend/old co-worker. This was just a few days after the snow/ice hit the area (I believe around the 16th or 17th?)
Anyway I pulled into the complex and my friend over the phone said there were visitor spots but that nobody ever gets towed so not to worry too much about it. But since I'm a good, law-abiding citizen, I made sure to find and park in a visitor spot. I found a row of spots that were mostly empty, but there was a thick layer of compacted snow and ice covering the ends of the parking spaces so that the letters or numbers were almost entirely illegible. It was at night, and I was (obviously) new to the area so I was having a hard time making out which spots were which. I cruised back and forth a few times, pausing to roll down my window once or twice and inspect the spots. When I was sure I had identified a row of visitor spaces, I pulled into one.
About an hour later, my car was gone. Apparently I had parked in one of only 2 or 3 spots on that row that were not visitor. The resident who owned the spot called it in. (Some jerko, because apparently nobody ever parks there anyway.) I bailed my car out for $150, and drove home. Then I started getting mad, because I was truly trying to obey their parking regulations, and if I had been able to see that that space was not visitor, I obviously would not have parked there. So 48 hours later I had my friend take a picture of the space, and I called the tow company. Obviously they didn't refund me because they were just doing their job, towing a car for a call-in.
Then I called the HOA and spoke with the manager and they refused to help me as well, since they were not the ones who called the tow in, and because they had "never refunded anyone before". They also claimed that it was my responsibility to find a visitor spot and that they were not liable for keeping the spaces clear (I believe she said they didn't have to do boo about it until they got more than 2" of snow.) She also said that she had received no other complaints about the snow...well lady, here's your first!
Edit: Found out today that a snow plow had come through and plowed down the center of the parking lots and piled snow up at the end of the spaces, so that's why there was so much compacted ice still left in the area. So they HAD deemed the conditions bad enough to plow and perform some winter weather maintenance on the lot.
So my question now is, is this worth fighting further? I feel like I should not be held liable if the spaces were not properly cleared and I was not able to differentiate between visitor/resident spaces. I am on a shoestring budget and $150 is my "groceries and gas" money for a month...it made a big dent in my wallet and I'm going to be doing some serious scraping this month and next to make up for it.
Attached is a picture of the spot I parked in:
PLEASE NOTE: This picture was taken 48 HOURS AFTER the incident. The snow/ice has melted by at least 50% at this point.
Thanks for all your help.
Last edited by Cyprinid; 12-29-2010 at 10:49 AM ..
12-29-2010, 09:50 AM
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read
10,946,208 times
Reputation: 3699
I'm not sure who you'd fight. You already called the towing company (who rightfully aren't doing anything), and the condo company really isn't liable either--there were probably signs that said they tow in the parking lot.
For $150, I'd just chalk it up to a lesson learned, unfortunately. I had the same problem at my apartment complex. Several times we had cars towed because of not getting the right visitor stickers for rental cars or visiting family. Frustrating as heck, but nothing you can really do.
12-29-2010, 10:13 AM
5 posts, read
18,606 times
Reputation: 11
That was my dilemma as well...I think my biggest deal is that while there were signs posted about designated parking, the designations were so obscured by ice that I could not differentiate between them. Technically, if I can't tell the spaces apart, I'm thinking I should not be held liable. The HOA absolutely would not be liable if it were under normal conditions...then again, if the conditions were normal, I would have been able to tell which space was visitor. It wasn't a matter of me not having a sticker or not seeing a sign - I was full aware that there were designated visitor spots, but the markings were illegible.
Getting back $150 is worth a little fight to me...I like eating things other than Ramen, and not having to walk 11 miles to work because I can't afford gas...
12-29-2010, 10:26 AM
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read
10,946,208 times
Reputation: 3699
Does the responsibility not fall on you to have scraped away the snow/ice and checked that the spot was indeed a visitor place?
I mean, I completely understand your anger and frustration--but I really don't think there's anything that can be done.
12-29-2010, 10:31 AM
5 posts, read
18,606 times
Reputation: 11
Indeed I understand your point as well, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to ask that visitors carry a snowshovel with them in case they need to clear a spot. What if I was elderly and not yet handicapped enough to get a sticker, but too infirm to stand outside for 30 minutes chipping away at a block of ice? I had no means to clear the spot (it wasn't powdery snow, remember). It does not fall under my area of responsibility to ensure the safety and maintenance of their parking lot.
Is it also now the responsibility of store patrons to carry their own bag of salt and look where they are stepping when walking on an icy sidewalk in front of a retail center?
12-29-2010, 10:50 AM
5 posts, read
18,606 times
Reputation: 11
Edited my original post to include the fact that I just found out they had plowed the lots and pushed the snow onto the ends of the parking spaces, which is why there was so much still there. So apparently there had been enough snow to warrant them performing maintenance on the parking lot.
12-29-2010, 11:41 AM
2,688 posts, read
6,684,139 times
Reputation: 1291
If you really feel like someone other than you should be liable, then ask your friend to reimburse you for not taking the time to come out and and show you the visitor spaces. The resident did what he/she was entitled to do by having your car cleared from the spot that he/she pays for. The tow company did their job, by responding to the call from the resident. You could have called your friend and asked him to come out and show you where the visitor spaces were.
12-29-2010, 11:58 AM
518 posts, read
925,226 times
Reputation: 448
I just dealt with a similar situation myself. I had my car towed from my designated parking space because there was sand over my number. The gist of the situation is that the towing company is completely authorized to tow from the spaces that they are designated to tow from. In your case you had the owner of that spot tow you away from their spot, thus giving the towing company the ability to tow with impunity from that spot regardless of the condition of said spot. This puts everything on the person who you visited. It was their responsibility to inform you whether the spot you parked in was a visitor spot or not. You may be able to argue that it is the HOA's fault for not ensuring that the visitor spots were clearly, but I doubt you will get much headway with this since it was an isolated incident. In my case, I was lucky enough to have 2 members of the HOA board get towed in the same fashion.
It took me about 4 months to get this all resolved. Even if you do get lucky enough to have this work out in your favor it will take a while to work out the details. Basically you have to wait for an HOA meeting, present your case, have the HOA deliberate the point and determine the proper course of action, then if the HOA needs to, contact the towing contractor, deal with them.
I feel bad for your situation, and wish you the best of luck in getting this resolved.
12-29-2010, 12:39 PM
Location: Censorshipville...
4,437 posts, read
8,131,234 times
Reputation: 5021
I don't think this will apply in your case, but is similar in nature. Handicap spots must be marked a certain way or it is not considered a true handicap parking spot. VA code lists it has to have "above grade signage"
Legislative Information System because of the exact occurrence that befell you. Now I understand that there isn't any code that visitor parking spots would fall under, but it's the same general idea.
The only reason I know of this obscure code is because we had 10 handicap spots at my last job. No one parked there. Well there were a few motorcyclists including myself who requested some designated motorcycle parking spots. It wasn't approved. We requested spots because the parking lot was always packed and we'd never get spots. So we found that the handicap spots weren't "real" handicap spots because there were no vertical signage indicating what they were (they did have the painted logo on the ground though). We took that up to the building superintendent/security and they said we could park there without any repercussions. So us motorcyclists occupied 4 of the 10 handicap spots in front. The upside is we also freed up spots in the normal parking area for regular cars. No bikes were ever towed from those spots either.
Do understand that I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV
12-29-2010, 01:09 PM
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read
13,986,059 times
Reputation: 3222
I think this situation sounds like one that should fall on the person you visited and the HOA. If it is their policy to keep the ground clear so that residents can identify a parking spot, then they would be violating HOA agreement. The person you visited definitely could have helped find a space, but that is not germane because if that person couldn't remember which space is which, you would still have the same problem. In my opinion this sounds like it would be a fight between the person you visited and HOA. The tow company did nothing wrong. I certainly understand your frustration because these HOA only care about themselves and have little regard to their residents. Most responsible HOAs would have a posted sign in addition to marking the space. I think the only chance you got on this is getting your friend to explain the policies there, but otherwise I don't think you're going to get much out of this.
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)