Are Fairfax County Schools really some of the best in the nation? (how much, home)

[Yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by slduvall

Whereas where I came from before here, the teachers are products of the same school system, as were their parents, not a alot of new blood if you get my drift. You don't question anything...

I can see how that would be a problem.

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by chariega

THIS. It's definitely the students not the schools!

p.s. I used to teach for FFX and questioned a lot of the curriculum--it wasn't as rigorous as I thought it should be esp. when so many kids in my class weren't challenged by the material. I'm a good teacher and all, but these kids were super smart!

I agree. We have very good schools with very good families that feed into them. I do find that people will say the school is "good" because of the students and families, but if a school is "bad", then the same reasoning is not always given.

You can, however, take the curriculum and standards which you are given and still challenge the students. As an elementary teacher, I don't have all of my students doing the same work. That's the way it was done when I was a kid, but although it makes what I do tougher it shouldn't be done that way today. I have reading groups at a wide range of levels completing various tasks that are challenging to each of them. Students work through the writing process at a level which is challenging to each individual student. I have writing conferences with my students and discuss their progress. One might be working on proper dialogue within their writing while another is working on basic sentence structure. While they are all learning the same material, they are not all completing the same assignments in class or even receiving the same homework.

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by DC Oldtimer

Not exactly.

Fairfax has some of the best *students* in the country. This is due to the high concentration of Ph.D.s and other professionals in the area. Such individuals tend to have children who likewise excel academically.

This is not to deny that Fairfax has some outstanding teachers and programs. But IMO it's the human capital of the students that is the biggest factor in producing high achievers with impressive scores.

This is a great argument against merit based pay.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by tgbwc

This is a great argument against merit based pay.

It's also a good argument against a lot of other things teachers ask for: small class size, more money for various programs, equipment, etc. perhaps even tenure/seniority and higher benefits/pay.

Over the years, I've read number of studies that cite parental involvement as the single most important coefficient in determining student performance.

Unfortunately, there is no magic solution for improving that without whole sale cultural changes that are extremely hard to achieve. It's something that is ingrained in particular cultures or sub-cultures that have developed over (in some cases) a millenia.

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

It's also a good argument against a lot of other things teachers ask for: small class size, more money for various programs, equipment, etc. perhaps even tenure/seniority and higher benefits/pay.

Over the years, I've read number of studies that cite parental involvement as the single most important coefficient in determining student performance.

Unfortunately, there is no magic solution for improving that without whole sale cultural changes that are extremely hard to achieve. It's something that is ingrained in particular cultures or sub-cultures that have developed over (in some cases) a millenia.

I can't say I disagree with you.
I've always said that I have good students from good families. That makes my job easier in many ways. I think I do my job well, and my students perform well. I could be at a different school, with different students bringing in different values and background knowledge and I wouldn't want to compare the performance of the latter school to the former.

[michgc]

One thing that I don't understand is that schools that are not as highly ranked (read: low test scores) are usually attributed to lower-income students or ESOL students feeding in to it. But people will defend the school saying it's still good because it's the same curriculum as the rest of FCPS. But if the curriculum isn't all that great, then what IS so great about these lower-scoring schools?

My kids are in an above-average (according to test scores) but not "top" elementary school. My third-grader has had two great teachers and two good teachers. There are also some not-so-great teachers at this school from what I've heard, but we haven't had one of them yet. Yet even with my daughter's great teachers, I still don't like some of the curricula being used (lattice-method anyone?), feel there are too many worksheets, too many students and not enough time to allow teachers to use differentiation, except maybe for reading groups, and not enough stimulating projects assigned or enough subjects being taught in an interesting, engaging manner.

I have a friend in an elementary school that is considered "top" in this area. She has had two excellent teachers, one "not great" teacher, and one probably good, but brand-new first-year teaching teacher. With her great teacher, I have seen her assigned projects which I feel are challenging and stimulating, yet my child was not given similar projects at her school. And her class is currently 22 students compared to my child's 31 students! That makes a big difference. (On the other hand her class one year was once 28 or 29 to my daughter's 23). So I do believe that not all schools in FCPS are created equal.

I don't know where I'm going with this other than to say I don't see where all Fairfax County schools are great. I have been somewhat satisfied with the education my children are getting but not "wowed" by it. My oldest is moving to a new school next year so it will be interesting to compare.

[car54]

Originally Posted by chariega

THIS. It's definitely the students not the schools!

Mmmm, if the students already smart...and the schools don't matter...couldn't we just skip the whole thing and save a heap of money?

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by michgc

My kids are in an above-average (according to test scores) but not "top" elementary school. My third-grader has had two great teachers and two good teachers. There are also some not-so-great teachers at this school from what I've heard, but we haven't had one of them yet. Yet even with my daughter's great teachers, I still don't like some of the curricula being used (lattice-method anyone?), feel there are too many worksheets, too many students and not enought time to allow teachers to use differentiation, except maybe for reading groups, and not enough stimulating projects assigned or enough subjects being taught in an interesting, engaging manner.

I have a friend in an elementary school that is considered "top" in this area. She has had two excellent teachers, one "not great" teacher, and one probably good, but brand-new first-year teaching teacher. With her great teacher, I have seen her assigned projects which I feel are challenging and stimulating, yet my child was not given similar projects at her school. And her class is currently 22 students compared to my child's 31 students! That makes a big difference. (On the other hand her class one year was once 28 or 29 to my daughter's 23). So I do believe that not all schools in FCPS are created equal.

That's correct. Some teachers will give worksheets galore, others will give assignments which are more individualized. Some integrate subject matter across the curriculum, some will treat them as totally seperate subjects. Totally different styles. I like to challenge my students to demonstrate what they have learned in a way that is appealing to them. For example, we study author's purpose in language arts. In social studies we learn about ancient Rome. I had my elem. students create an advertisement for an event in ancient Rome. It could be anything from a play to a gladiator fight (that allowed some of them to get a bit gorey). The object was to get people to come to their event, so the author's purpose was persuasive. They really got into the assignment using Roman numerals, Roman names, Roman fonts, etc.

Some classes are larger, some smaller. The benefit of a smaller class is that you can spend more time prepping and spending time with smaller groups or individuals. It's tough to do that with 31 in a class.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by tgbwc

It's tough to do that with 31 in a class.

When I was in elementary school, each classroom had about 80 students. Nobody complained of too large a class size though. Of course, teachers enforced discipline with the cane, so... that was that. I guess you couldn't do that here and now.

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

When I was in elementary school, each classroom had about 80 students. Nobody complained of too large a class size though. Of course, teachers enforced discipline with the cane, so... that was that. I guess you couldn't do that here and now.

80:1?
Were you all doing the same work, at the same time, at the same pace? A "one size fits all" approach?