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Did someone else link this piece already? If not, there is a lot to chew in the article.
Mainly, it seems to me, the writer confuses the real reason for the success of Reston Town Center. I don't think it's a replication of city life in a suburban setting. RTC and other "town centers" in the area seem to be exactly what they are called -- replications of (small?) "town centers" in a suburban and exurban setting.
Did someone else link this piece already? If not, there is a lot to chew in the article.
Mainly, it seems to me, the writer confuses the real reason for the success of Reston Town Center. I don't think it's a replication of city life in a suburban setting. RTC and other "town centers" in the area seem to be exactly what they are called -- replications of (small?) "town centers" in a suburban and exurban setting.
I would suggest in general that there is a form in between a traditional small town and a big city downtown - there is the small to medium city downtown. I would suggest that all three share many attributes - mixed use, grids, extensive sidewalks, storefronts facing directly on the street, etc - but differ in the building height, density of ped and vehicle traffic, etc.
Some town centers come closer to the small town - maybe Fairfax Corners? I would say Pentagon Row is definitely urban in feel. Shirlington is interesting - its got height on the periphery and in the heart a lot of midrise. It feels to me more like a neighborhood in a big city, but not RIGHT downtown. Rockville Town Center is slightly more urban in feel.
I haven't been to Bethesda Row.
I will not dicuss RTC, as I am trying not to discuss development in NoVa more than a mile outside the beltway. Others can apply what I have said to the look and feel of RTC, if they care to.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Yes, IDL, someone linked to this article in the Mosaic District discussion. I agree that these town centers aren't really urban or not what "big city folk" would think of as urban. I think BBD makes an interesting comment, however, about the similarities of a small town and a city downtown. I feel somewhat the same way. I used to say that I wanted to live in the city or in a small town, but that the suburbs were not for me. I equated both of the former (small town or city) as having a central, walkable business district, while I felt that suburbs were made up of stand alone housing developments where one had to drive to retail shopping centers.
Of course the distinction is not as easy or as clear as that, but my thinking was along the lines of this:
small town: Warrenton, Middleburg, Leesburg
city (whether large or small): Washington, DC, Winchester, Fredericksburg
suburbs: Centreville, Burke, Springfield
Of course many of what were once small towns have also become suburbs such as Leesburg. And what were once suburbs are now incorporating these types of town centers such as Fairfax (Corner), Dunn Loring (Mosaic). It seems like Reston is somewhat of an anomaly as it was ahead of its time in a way, developing a town center when forming the town back in the 60's.
In general, I'm a fan of places - whether they are big or small - to be built around a walkable business district where one can get many of their everyday needs met - market, bank, store.
I think back in the 60's and 70's when many suburban housing was built, the goal seemed to be cheap housing outside the city that was commutable. Places that developed earlier - up to the 1950's, perhaps? seem to have developmed more along the lines of the central business district model, even if it was a small town.
With the amount of congestion on the roads in the DC area and the rising price of gas, I think more and more people are realizing the benefits of living near a town center of some sort, whether a traditionally grown one or a privately developed one.
When one reads the article, one is left with the impression that 1) RTC is extensively walkable like a major urban area and 2) RTC residents can sustain the businesses there with foot traffic. I have not seen the figures but I get the sense that much of RTC foot traffic and business activity are generated by those who drive in from nearby communities and park. If so, the model is more like that of the downtown of a small town rather than an urban shopping area.
Nice article, I guess, but the Washington Post is only now noticing this? Highly successful town centers have been in the Nova suburbs for quite some time now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta
the model is more like that of the downtown of a small town rather than an urban shopping area.
I don't think it's like either of those choices. The model is that of a suburban town center--there are certainly enough of them that they deserve their own category, and besides, there are some definite differences. Suburbia has developed its own distinct, and increasingly popular style. Suburban town centers have features that you don't find in either urban or small town centers, as well as a feel and look that is designed to appeal to people who love suburbia. The headline of the article is ludicrous to me: "Can City Life Be Exported to the Suburbs". Oh please--if you live and work at RTC you're not living a city life. Not even remotely. Life in north Reston is still very much a suburban life. A walkable suburban life, but definitely suburban.
The article spoke about the new metropolitan center in Leesburg off rte7. i went there for dinner the other night and was impressed. maybe because it's new? but I did like the lay-out and the fact that there is parking garages. Don't really bother me that it's not a 'real city' it beats going to a mall.
I will not speak about Reston Town Center, but I will speak about some places inside the beltway, or close to the beltway. I would say that Shirlington (whose roots predate the town center fad, but its new incarnation is pretty similar) Pentagon Row, and Rockville Town Center, in my opinion have many charecteristics that are specifically those of cities and small towns - and that is what makes them appealing to me, and I think to many others. That they appeal to suburbanites seems to me less a matter of them not being "urban" than of the fact that many suburbanites actually like the charecteristics of urban places. I am not sure what aspects of those places are not "urban" I guess what some might feel is not urban about them is A. That they are built and operated by a single developer, like a mall - but if that means not being urban, then Rockefeller Center in Manhattan, the coming City Center in DC, etc, are not urban B. They have free parking - well Pentagon Row at least doesn't, and some developments in cities do. C. They have low density single use residential areas nearby - well in many smaller cities the traditional downtowns do - an example in our region is Old Town Alexandria.
Some may feel they are not urban because they are not rundown, dirty, etc. I think thats an unfair chacterization of whats "urban"
Some people call these places "walkable urban places" even though they are in suburbs. I don't think it matters so much what they are called - the purposes they serve and the charecteristics they have are what they are.
Personally, DW and I continue to explore options to move to a more urban place, and Shirlington is high on our list for many reasons. Our reason for choosing it over a "true urban place" (DC? Old Town Alex?) would certainly not be anything that I think of as aspects of suburban charecter - but simply because its more affordable, and is close to our synagogue. Its the urban aspects that make it particularly appealing.
Last edited by brooklynborndad; 09-13-2012 at 09:29 AM..
Nice article, I guess, but the Washington Post is only now noticing this? Highly successful town centers have been in the Nova suburbs for quite some time now.
I don't think it's like either of those choices. The model is that of a suburban town center--there are certainly enough of them that they deserve their own category, and besides, there are some definite differences. Suburbia has developed its own distinct, and increasingly popular style. Suburban town centers have features that you don't find in either urban or small town centers, as well as a feel and look that is designed to appeal to people who love suburbia. The headline of the article is ludicrous to me: "Can City Life Be Exported to the Suburbs". Oh please--if you live and work at RTC you're not living a city life. Not even remotely. Life in north Reston is still very much a suburban life. A walkable suburban life, but definitely suburban.
I don't disagree. I think the suburban "town" centers are fast becoming a category of their own. I also dispute the silly notion that RTC is a replication of the urban shopping/dining area. It's not.
Nonetheless, I think RTC evokes the feeling of the downtown of an affluent small town (near a major city) more so than any urban area. In the former, much of the commercial activity that sustains the downtown is generated by those who drive in (and park) from surrounding areas, not by high volume foot traffic as in an urban shopping area.
Articles like this have more than an inaccurate tinge of smugness ("Aw, look, those boring folks in the suburbs want to live us like sophisticated city folk") when in reality the lifestyle is actually quite different and is much more vehicle-driven than foot traffic-driven, in addition to being much more (large) family-friendly.
It has free parking and lots of people get there by car. And it has lots of families there.
But small cities often have free parking in their downtowns. And some of the towncenters (like Pentagon Row, IIRC) do not have free parking. Being "urban" to me doesn't mean autos being unusable or even unimportant, but autos being only one choice - alongside transit, walking, and biking.
And many urban activity centers have families there. They are often quite mixed in age and family status, as are some of the town centers, which I think is part of their appeal.
I personally dont want to charecterize Village at Leesburg, which Ive never been to, but here's what its designer said about it
"Kettler said he designed the Village at Leesburg to feel urban because people want to draw energy from one another on the street. “They want to be in an environment, in a context, where they can experience life as fully as possible. They like to be around people, and they like to be around interesting things, and they like to be around energy,” he said. “And that’s what the suburbs have historically lacked.”
Kettler called the apartments — adorned with the same modern fixtures and features as his company’s units downtown — the Metropolitan, a name he has also used for apartments in Pentagon City, Reston Town Center, Herndon and Lorton. His company wasn’t shy about marketing them as urban, even using a rap song to promote “the most fly one-, two- and three-bedrooms in the area”:"
"David Kitchens, Principal, Cooper Carry
9/12/2012 5:57 PM EDT
Thank you for a deliberate, well-written piece.
As a principal with Cooper Carry, the architecture firm that designed two of the projects you mention in your article - White Flint and Bethesda Row – I'm quite familiar with the topic. I think it’s important to note that although town centers can’t offer the “authentic experience” your article mentions, they offer many of the same advantages to those living out of the city. There are some people who simply don’t want to live downtown—maybe for affordability reasons, or maybe because they would rather be close to a thriving school system—and town centers allow them the same amenities and lifestyle that they’ve passed up by living in the suburbs.
Many of these town centers are developed with urban-planning principles in mind and are designed for longevity. Bethesda Row, for instance, is a good example of a town center that over time, has become a vibrant place, offering a unique urban character but in a suburban area.
I'd be interested in continuing this conversation.
- David Kitchens, Principal, Cooper Carry "
Last edited by brooklynborndad; 09-13-2012 at 02:53 PM..
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Not even remotely. Life in north Reston is still very much a suburban life. A walkable suburban life, but definitely suburban.
