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Old 06-01-2014, 03:44 PM
 
16,345 posts, read 18,063,833 times
Reputation: 7879

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Quote:

This isn't arbitrary or even a decision made by local politicians or
residents; the Census Bureau designates metropolitan areas based on commuting
patterns. Growth in outer counties is usually due to sprawl, but these
residents are still being employed within the larger region.
Okay, but neither city nor metro designation has proven your assertion that either have grown because of a massive expansion in government jobs. Instead, government jobs are shrinking as a % of the total workforce and total jobs, the very opposite of what you claimed was true.

Quote:
We're not talking about Federal government jobs, which these types of cities
are going to have regardless of where they're located, or local government jobs,
which is of course a local decision and not dependent on money from other parts
of the state. You're trying to shift the goalposts here, the point I'm making
is in regards to state-supported government jobs, which are a huge part of
Columbus' economy and are a net loss for Cincinnati and Cleveland.
So again, your solution is to make Cleveland the capital of a new region/state and to have it perform exactly the same way. So you really don't actually have a problem with the system, you just don't like that it benefits Cleveland less so than you want. And apparently, you believe that not having a bigger slice of public dollars is causing Cleveland too many issues to remain a part of the larger state (despite the fact that it is #1 in economic GDP in the state already even without it). So in effect, you want Cleveland to become a new welfare state?

Quote:
The only point here, which is the point I've been making all along, is that
Cincinnati and Cleveland do not receive a net benefit from sending money
to Columbus for government operations and both would be better off if
they kept more of their own money and decision-making power as the political
center of their own respective regions.
I still haven't seen any data on that, though. You guys repeat it but haven't actually proved it in any way.

I'm also curious about another obvious question. Let's say you did receive a larger portion of state money (assuming what you say is true and the difference is truly significant). Does having more money guarantee that it will actually be used to solve existing problems? Cleveland has not exactly been on the best of terms with honest, productive finances over the last several decades, so what do you propose will actually change that culturally?
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:46 PM
 
16,345 posts, read 18,063,833 times
Reputation: 7879
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
I'd gladly post such nighttime satellite pictures once again, but to what avail? Many Ohio C-D posters have seen these photos of CIN-DAY and NEO and comprehend their significance. Nevertheless, those who might benefit the most are a few fanatical CENTRAL OHIO posters entrapped in their own penthouses of delusion and denial. These few individuals will literally die fighting anyone over the truth of even the night sky...so why bother?
Wait, nighttime satellite photos show Ohio tax dollar distribution patterns now? Is there anything they can't show?
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:49 PM
 
16,345 posts, read 18,063,833 times
Reputation: 7879
I have to say, psychologically, this is all a pretty fascinating discussion and reveals quite a bit about how people really feel about Ohio and their respective cities.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,530 posts, read 5,023,338 times
Reputation: 1930
^^ (Clevelander17 & 1watertiger) Hopefully, you'll both decide to do what I did to protect your own sanity; the rubber room doesn't necessarily have to be your sole existence.

Last edited by motorman; 06-01-2014 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati(Silverton)
1,606 posts, read 2,838,629 times
Reputation: 688
Jbcmh81 You think the state(Columbus) is treating the rest of the state fairly the way it distributes funds and at time ban funds(54 m for the Cincy streetcar) for certain projects and give low population area's more funds. eg The Portsmouth bypass(400+ million) which will server about 30,000 vehicles a day.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,530 posts, read 5,023,338 times
Reputation: 1930
^ A word of advice, unusualfire. Don't waste any of your precious time debating a granite wall that cannot be chipped away; you'll only expire of exhaustion and futility.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:56 PM
 
16,345 posts, read 18,063,833 times
Reputation: 7879
Quote:
Originally Posted by unusualfire View Post
Jbcmh81 You think the state(Columbus) is treating the rest of the state fairly the way it distributes funds and at time ban funds(54 m for the Cincy streetcar) for certain projects and give low population area's more funds. eg The Portsmouth bypass(400+ million) which will server about 30,000 vehicles a day.
Columbus the city doesn't distribute tax dollars. The state does, and it's made up of representatives from every corner. If Columbus does get a larger share, which again, in all this wailing hasn't really been proven, it's not because Columbus the city (or metro for that matter) has somehow been able to manipulate the system. I've already said that being a capital has advantages, but I also tend to think you guys are trying to equate those advantages to your own respective cities' real or imagined flaws. Have you never heard the phrase "Correlation does not equal causation"? There seems to be less evidence that Columbus is holding Cleveland/Cincinnati back rather than they doing it to themselves. The debate is also exceedingly narrow. I've brought up other cities beyond the 3-Cs a few times now, and no one has even attempted to touch that.

I honestly have no problem with public tax dollars being fair, but fair is pretty subjective here. If it means that the 3-Cs all get an equal cut, fine. I don't think Columbus will be hurt at all by that. I actually believe in my hometown... So if that's what you want, demand it from your state representatives rather than complaining on a forum like this. Because that whole breaking up into a separate state thing ain't happening.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:57 PM
 
16,345 posts, read 18,063,833 times
Reputation: 7879
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
^ A word of advice, unusualfire. Don't waste any of your precious time debating a granite wall that cannot be chipped away; you'll only expire of exhaustion and futility.
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Old 06-02-2014, 07:56 PM
 
2,491 posts, read 4,469,504 times
Reputation: 1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Then what's the problem? If the mythical CIN-DAY is so awesome, you guys should have absolutely no problems from little old Columbus up 71. You regularly deride it as beneath the other 2, so I don't understand how it could also be such a big detriment to all that obvious success.
Mythical?

Apparently, only to you.

http://www.cityofdayton.org/PressRel...esignation.pdf

Recent deals cement growing Cincinnati-Dayton relationship | www.journal-news.com

Cincinnati/Dayton Region Chosen for Groundbreaking Health Care Initiative | Greater Cincinnati Health Council
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Old 06-03-2014, 10:27 AM
 
16,345 posts, read 18,063,833 times
Reputation: 7879
And to the US government which designates metros rather than local boosters, but yeah yeah, I know this doesn't matter. We've only been over this debate about 3 dozen times.
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