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Old 02-09-2018, 01:43 AM
 
4,361 posts, read 7,177,213 times
Reputation: 4866

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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
Once again, your overall premise is faulty because of your inaccurate data. Allow me to make the necessary corrections...

(a) Cincinnati is Ohio's top economy/Cleveland its third:

GDP.
Cincinnati - $132.010 BILLION
Columbus - $130.758 BILLION
Cleveland - $129.440 BILLION
Misleading, garbage stats. It takes an aggregate of 17 counties for EACH metro -- Columbus and Cincinnati -- to edge what Cleveland's economic output is within a mere 5 counties. Go apples-to-apples and Cleveland's regional output tops $190 billion and that's still within a smaller, 16 county footprint.
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:51 AM
 
16,345 posts, read 18,063,833 times
Reputation: 7879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Misleading, garbage stats. It takes an aggregate of 17 counties for EACH metro -- Columbus and Cincinnati -- to edge what Cleveland's economic output is within a mere 5 counties. Go apples-to-apples and Cleveland's regional output tops $190 billion and that's still within a smaller, 16 county footprint.
Neither Columbus or Cincinnati's metro has 17 counties. And as has been stated before, most of the economic output in either one is from only a handful of counties anyway. Hocking County is not adding $50 billion to Columbus' metro. It's pretty much entirely Franklin and then a big step down to Delaware, Licking, Union and Fairfield, just as Cincinnati's GDP is really not coming from tiny Kentucky or Indiana counties. The difference is not as drastic as you think it is.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,530 posts, read 5,023,338 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
(a) Cincinnati is Ohio's top economy/Cleveland its third:

GDP.
Cincinnati - $132.010 BILLION
Columbus - $130.758 BILLION
Cleveland - $129.440 BILLION
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Misleading, garbage stats. It takes an aggregate of 17 counties for EACH metro -- Columbus and Cincinnati -- to edge what Cleveland's economic output is within a mere 5 counties. Go apples-to-apples and Cleveland's regional output tops $190 billion and that's still within a smaller, 16 county footprint.
Okay, here we go again...for the umpteenth time, you want to pursue counting counties rather than counting the calories they each produce. So let's spin this contentious issue around once more - through a duel set of PDFs that I'm hoping will provide clarity to this discussion.

Although the link below has been presented elsewhere, it's obligatory that it be opened again, not merely to note the lopsided difference between Cincinnati and Cleveland in export rankings, but mainly to scrutinize the enclosures, which really do address your own protestation head on:

https://www.trade.gov/mas/ian/metror...ian_003084.asp

For forum members who may be unable to open the link, here's the list of core counties which do the heavy lifting within each metro, ie, five-vs-five. Although there's a good deal more that may be said in relation to the counties, it should pretty well end all this "county counting" once and for all.

CINCINNATI: #11/$26.3 BILLION

* Kenton County $12.3 billion
* Hamilton County $8.0 billion
* Boone County $2.7 billion
* Butler County $1.7 billion
* Warren County $1.1 billion

CLEVELAND: #34/$8.8 BILLION

* Cuyahoga County $5.7 billion
* Lake County $1.4 billion
* Lorain County $1.1 billion
* Medina County $380 million
* Geauga County $178 million
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:41 AM
 
1,078 posts, read 938,265 times
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I live in a nice suburb of Dayton, for reference. But in terms of living I’d say Cincy or Columbus are my preference to Cleveland.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
5 posts, read 3,318 times
Reputation: 23
There's a reason Columbus made Amazon's shortlist while Cleveland and Cincinnati were left behind. Columbus is young, vibrant and growing. Its future is largely impressionable, making it a draw both from neighboring Ohio cities and from national ones. Being a young white-collar professional, the choice was easy.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,058 posts, read 12,452,032 times
Reputation: 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignChamp View Post
There's a reason Columbus made Amazon's shortlist while Cleveland and Cincinnati were left behind. Columbus is young, vibrant and growing. Its future is largely impressionable, making it a draw both from neighboring Ohio cities and from national ones. Being a young white-collar professional, the choice was easy.
I still give Columbus the same chance as Cleveland of landing Amazon.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:16 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,438,435 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignChamp View Post
There's a reason Columbus made Amazon's shortlist while Cleveland and Cincinnati were left behind. Columbus is young, vibrant and growing. Its future is largely impressionable, making it a draw both from neighboring Ohio cities and from national ones. Being a young white-collar professional, the choice was easy.
Show me the proposals from each city, and the Kasich administration's and JobsOhio financial packages for each city, and then you can talk.

The likelihood IMO is that Amazon felt compelled to pick one of the Ohio cities as a finalist, given the ridiculous aid packages Ohio has given Amazon for mere distribution centers, which actually threatened incumbent retailers, several of them headquartered in Ohio, such as all of the Wexner companies, Discount Shoe Warehouse, Macy's and Kroger's. I can't imagine Columbus ending up with Amazon HQ2 given the published parameters and the other finalists.

Columbus should be furious at state aid given to Amazon for distribution centers, but instead it feels all loved and pretty.
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,058 posts, read 12,452,032 times
Reputation: 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Show me the proposals from each city, and the Kasich administration's and JobsOhio financial packages for each city, and then you can talk.

The likelihood IMO is that Amazon felt compelled to pick one of the Ohio cities as a finalist, given the ridiculous aid packages Ohio has given Amazon for mere distribution centers, which actually threatened incumbent retailers, several of them headquartered in Ohio, such as all of the Wexner companies, Discount Shoe Warehouse, Macy's and Kroger's. I can't imagine Columbus ending up with Amazon HQ2 given the published parameters and the other finalists.

Columbus should be furious at state aid given to Amazon for distribution centers, but instead it feels all loved and pretty.
All very good points. Ohio selling its soul for Amazon, with or without landing the HQ2.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:34 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,438,435 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Misleading, garbage stats. It takes an aggregate of 17 counties for EACH metro -- Columbus and Cincinnati -- to edge what Cleveland's economic output is within a mere 5 counties. Go apples-to-apples and Cleveland's regional output tops $190 billion and that's still within a smaller, 16 county footprint.
It would be interesting to calculate the number of square miles in the Cleveland metro versus Cincinnati and Columbus. I don't care enough to do so, because unlike Motorman, I think much superior cultural institutions, having a Great Lake in my front yard, superior mass transit, one of the world's best medical centers, and a superior pro sports line-up, makes Cleveland a much preferable place to live compared with Cincinnati or Columbus.

If a person doesn't agree with my logic and/or preferences, they are welcome to get all puffed up and spend their lives in Cincinnati or Columbus.

The Cleveland MSA is the only one to not include all of the adjacent counties, as Summit County (Akron) with its large hunk of GDP isn't included in the Cleveland MSA, but in the separate Akron MSA.

And, as Lake Erie is on the northern border of Cleveland's MSA, there are no northern counties in the Cleveland MSA. I know that Lake County, to the east of Cleveland's Cuyahoga County, is the smallest county in area in Ohio, but Cuyahoga, Geauga, Medina and Lorain, the only other counties in the Cleveland MSA, may be relatively large.

This is the real reason that Motorman's MSA GDP statistics may be hogwash. If Motorman doesn't produce a detailed listing of square miles by county and a total of square miles for each MSA, we'll know my theory is correct!
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:38 AM
 
16,345 posts, read 18,063,833 times
Reputation: 7879
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
Okay, here we go again...for the umpteenth time, you want to pursue counting counties rather than counting the calories they each produce. So let's spin this contentious issue around once more - through a duel set of PDFs that I'm hoping will provide clarity to this discussion.

Although the link below has been presented elsewhere, it's obligatory that it be opened again, not merely to note the lopsided difference between Cincinnati and Cleveland in export rankings, but mainly to scrutinize the enclosures, which really do address your own protestation head on:

https://www.trade.gov/mas/ian/metror...ian_003084.asp

For forum members who may be unable to open the link, here's the list of core counties which do the heavy lifting within each metro, ie, five-vs-five. Although there's a good deal more that may be said in relation to the counties, it should pretty well end all this "county counting" once and for all.

CINCINNATI: #11/$26.3 BILLION

* Kenton County $12.3 billion
* Hamilton County $8.0 billion
* Boone County $2.7 billion
* Butler County $1.7 billion
* Warren County $1.1 billion

CLEVELAND: #34/$8.8 BILLION

* Cuyahoga County $5.7 billion
* Lake County $1.4 billion
* Lorain County $1.1 billion
* Medina County $380 million
* Geauga County $178 million

To be fair, those numbers are only for exports and not for total GDP. GDP isn't actually measured at the county level as of yet, but there are plans to do so eventually. However, it's pretty easy to assume that each metro's largest 5 counties account for most of the GDP.
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