03-11-2024, 09:11 PM
1,650 posts, read
1,398,714 times
Reputation: 3615
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
You vastly underestimate your driving costs.
Nope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
It's not just gas. Every time you drive, your car's value is depreciating.
No. A couple trips a month from Cleveland to Columbus does zero to the value of a car over the lifetime of a car. Highway driving is the easiest use of a car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
Your tires are being degraded, your oil is being used, all of which have to eventually be replaced.
Tires can last 50k miles. Oil changes are up to 7500-10,000 miles now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
Your car use contributes to road and highway maintenance necessities, which do cost you in the long run.
Heavy trucks do 90% of the damage to highways. Passenger cars contribute almost nothing to road damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
Let's also not forget about insurance costs.
We pay a price for insurance whether we use the car or it sits in the driveway. Insurance is a sunk cost. Since we need a car to live in most of Ohio, we have to have car insurance. The more miles we drive, the cheaper the car insurance gets per mile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
And you didn't even bother to factor in the price of parking.
Is parking at the choo-choo stations going to be free? What if the final destination is my mom's house and driveway? I know for a fact that parking at my mom's house is free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
In cities, that's certainly not going to be free in most cases, and "free parking" is not actually free to begin with. It gets subsidized by taxpayers- assuming you are one of them.
You are going to bring up the pretend calculations about "subsidized" free parking in a discussion about choo-choos? Every passenger train in the USA is subsidized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
All of that adds up over time, so you can't just say "$35 in gas" as if that's the only cost of your trips. Estimates of the true cost of driving only (no parking included) range from $0.25-$0.35 per mile, meaning the 223-mile trip between Cincinnati and Cleveland will actually run you from about $56 to $78. This price also assumes a $3/gallon price of gas and a relatively high gas mileage standard for your car. Any small changes will cost you even more. Once you factor in parking and other incidentals, your trip really isn't all that different in price than rail.
The cheapest Amtrak coach round trip rail ticket between Boston Back Bay to NYPenn (187 miles) is $239.
How much will Cinci to Cleveland cost? How much does it cost to get to the train station in Cinci? How much does it cost to get from the train station in Cleveland to your final destination? How much time will all these journey legs and waiting add to your trip? If you add another person on the train, the train price will almost double - unlike a car where if you add another person your cost is cut in half.
There is a ton of slack time that has to be built into a train trip. A car will be cheaper and take less time and, in the business world, time is money.
At these distances and costs, there will never be enough drivers convinced to use rail.
FYI - despite the term using choo-choo, I am not a rail hater, just a rail realist.
03-11-2024, 10:15 PM
1,212 posts, read
501,942 times
Reputation: 1437
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
We can't do it right because a bunch of Boomers who childishly refer to rail transit as a "choo choo" still make dishonest arguments about it and its effectiveness.
Interesting pejorative. You folks have an entire dictionary of them.
03-11-2024, 10:28 PM
1,212 posts, read
501,942 times
Reputation: 1437
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JR_C
I don't know if it was you or one of the other anti-train people, but one of you seemed pretty sure that the future of Ohio's expanded rail service depended on the political whims of the current elected officials? So, doesn't that equate to the people posting here?
People are not anti train, some just explain that it's wasteful government spending. I like trains, and I have no interest riding one in Ohio. A bullet train in Japan sure. Amtrak is spending 2 million to "study" this. And maybe by 2035 it happens.
https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/...ble-Slides.pdf
03-12-2024, 01:53 AM
1,099 posts, read
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Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by
46H
Nope
Not to mention that cars last 20 or 30 years these days and can easily go 250,000 MI without a sweat. I'm still driving a 2004 by choice, not because I can't afford a new one. There's nothing really I like out there and the car runs perfectly fine. Residual value doesn't matter to me.
When it comes to damage to the roadways, all you have to do is take a look at the average residential street and compare it to the highways. No truck traffic on local streets and they are generally in pretty good shape.
03-12-2024, 01:55 AM
1,099 posts, read
1,143,440 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Karl Lagos
People are not anti train, some just explain that it's wasteful government spending. I like trains, and I have no interest riding one in Ohio. A bullet train in Japan sure. Amtrak is spending 2 million to "study" this. And maybe by 2035 it happens.
https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/...ble-Slides.pdf
They can't even equal the time spent in a car let alone best it. They are insane if they think hordes of people are going to take 9 hour train rides from Cincinnati to Chicago.
03-12-2024, 06:52 AM
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,509 posts, read
9,486,726 times
Reputation: 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Karl Lagos
People are not anti train, some just explain that it's wasteful government spending. I like trains, and
I have no interest riding one in Ohio. A bullet train in Japan sure. Amtrak is spending 2 million to "study" this. And maybe by 2035 it happens.
https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/...ble-Slides.pdf
And here's where I think the root of the problem is. You seem to feel that, because you're not interested, no one will be. But I have no problem believing that half a million people will use this each year.
I'm only 47, but I've seen a lot of success stories that started out with a lot of people claiming they would be a failure and were a waste of money because those people couldn't see that their lack of interest wasn't
everyone's lack of interest.
03-12-2024, 07:13 AM
21,884 posts, read
12,936,608 times
Reputation: 36894
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PerryMason614
They can't even equal the time spent in a car let alone best it. They are insane if they think hordes of people are going to take 9 hour train rides from Cincinnati to Chicago.
Maybe not young working people or families on a schedule, but I'll bet "hordes" of retirees would love it. We have both the money and time to spend on such a trip and often don't want to drive or even ride long hours in a car for one reason or another. Some entrepreneurs should start organizing senior group travel by Amtrak rather than charter bus!
03-12-2024, 07:50 AM
4,516 posts, read
5,090,184 times
Reputation: 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by
otterhere
Maybe not young working people or families on a schedule, but I'll bet "hordes" of retirees would love it. We have both the money and time to spend on such a trip and often don't want to drive or even ride long hours in a car for one reason or another. Some entrepreneurs should start organizing senior group travel by Amtrak rather than charter bus!
I thought this thread was about discussing possible new Amtrak routes for Ohio (finally), which seems a strong possibility and is very promising. Unfortunately, it has dissolved into a rail-hating/rail justifying thread. Leave the backward, rail-hating troglodytes and let them establish their own thread -- best suited for politics section -- rather than allowing them to poison this (what should be) positive thread. We have no reason to justify increasing passenger rail and all of its concomitant benefits to these people and let's keep this from devolving into a trolling thread, which it is at the moment.
03-12-2024, 08:38 AM
1,212 posts, read
501,942 times
Reputation: 1437
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JR_C
And here's where I think the root of the problem is. You seem to feel that, because you're not interested, no one will be. But I have no problem believing that half a million people will use this each year.everyone's lack of interest.
Nope not about me. I have already posted that from Cincy to Chicago they get a whopping 8K a year. There is no demand between Cincy and Cleveland. If there was there would at least 1 direct flight. There's 10 daily direct flights between Cincy and Chicago. Cbus is too close to both Cincy and Cleveland. You might get some weekend folks and families that use it to go to Cincy and Cleveland for Reds/Guardians games.
I also predicted what would happen with the Cincy streetcar thing when it was in the planning stages. 1) eventually it would be free, 2) The bulk of the ridership would be in the spring/summer when folks from the suburbs drive to downtown, park at the Banks, then jump on the streetcar and ride around like it's Disneyland.
03-12-2024, 09:04 AM
Location: Elsewhere
88,509 posts, read
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Reputation: 114946
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cheech14
We can't do it right because a bunch of Boomers who childishly refer to rail transit as a "choo choo" still make dishonest arguments about it and its effectiveness.
It seems that "bunch" is exactly one.
Hyperbole and exaggeration just make you sound ignorant. Don't do it.
This Boomer is for more rail transit.
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People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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