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Oklahoma is part of the South, not Midwest. We are part of a region called the south central United States. This includes the states of Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana. That is the most accurate region to place Oklahoma. It is geographically, politically, culturally and historically southern. I suggest you visit the midwest if you think Oklahoma is midwestern or think Oklahomans have a midwestern accent. I also suggest you look at the map I posted again. Oklahoma's southern accent is a variation of the Ozark hillbilly and deep south.
South midland is sometimes called "upland south" That has nothing to do with "midwest." I think one of the most irritating things on the planet are people thinking Oklahoma is anything like or part of the midwest. Another fingernails on the chalkboard misconception are the people who think most of the state is situated in the great plains. We are a land of "y'all" grits and sweet tea.
Still in doubt or denial(Tulsans) take a trip down to Broken Bow and tell them they have a "midland" accent or are midwestern. You may not make it out of there.
I don't disagree with you completely but it is absoluetly false that 90% of the settlement in the land runs came from the south.
David Payne who organized his "Boomers" in Kansas generated a lot of attention from Northerners. Many of those people came from the northern approaches of the Land run of 1889. Then the Cherokee strip run was very similar. Conversely, a lot of the settlement from the south approach of the run of 1889 came from Texas. You can actually see this in the populations of towns like Hennessey, Kingfisher and particularly Okarche who's roots are german and czech. Those people came from the northern approaches to the land run.
Thinking of this thread I asked a woman who had been born and raised in Woodward if she felt like people in Woodward considered themselves "southern" and she said absolutely not.
The towns are areas of Oklahoma you are using to base your argument are the least populated areas in Oklahoma. David Paynes small group settled along the North Canadian River(right around the downtown area) just prior to the runs. His followers were also kicked out several times. Kansas has almost zero influence due to it having such a low population. Kansas was a union state. Oklahoma was Confederate territory.
The mistake you are making is thinking the runs are what established Oklahoma's settlement. There were towns, schools and business in OK long before the runs. This was mainly due Confederate outposts and southerners escaping reconstruction right after the Civil. Human migration in the Unites States has always gone from east to west. Sure we had many people coming in from Texas, but the people coming in from Texas came from places like Mississippi and Alabama. Tennessee and Mississippi were our main contributors. Oklahoma's culture is deeply rooted in Ozark mountain and gulf southern. Yes there is some midwest influences, but it is not the dominant culture.
I live in OKC and have noticed at least half of the people here don't have an accent at all...I'm from Calif. and no one has ever asked me where I'm from due to my western accent..
And about that sweet tea; don't you mean SYRUP LADEN GOOP?...I grew up on sweet tea but I have to ask the waitress to cut it here...YIKES
What is a western accent? You strike me as the typical Californian in OK. You never really leave OKC, think OKC is the entire state and that Oklahoma is the midwest. That sweet tea is real.
What is a western accent? You strike me as the typical Californian in OK. You never really leave OKC, think OKC is the entire state and that Oklahoma is the midwest. That sweet tea is real.
Sweet jesus! Why are you getting all bent out of shape over accents and sweet tea?
Oklahoma sits right in the middle and people from different parts of the state identify themselves differently as a result. Most people in the Tulsa area consider ourselves to be Midwestern. You hear very little mention of being part of the south. There’s no feelings of southern pride here, no memories of the civil war. You hardly ever see a confederate flag anywhere and it looks out of place when you do. We have few Pine trees, no Kudzu. We (usually) do have winters. There are no stores called Dixie this or that. Sweet Tea is the exception, not the rule. Southern food is a style of food rather than the local cuisine. Tulsa’s local food is steaks, burgers, Coney dogs and BBQ. Not catfish, fried chicken and grits. Tulsa has much more in common with Kansas City and Omaha and Wichita than it does with Little Rock or Atlanta or New Orleans. Oklahoma City seems more like Dallas or Ft Worth, but I wouldn’t call them southern either. Southwestern seems to make more sense. Southeast Oklahoma is certainly southern, but is also very different from the rest of the state.
Oklahoma sits right in the middle and people from different parts of the state identify themselves differently as a result. Most people in the Tulsa area consider ourselves to be Midwestern. You hear very little mention of being part of the south. There’s no feelings of southern pride here, no memories of the civil war. You hardly ever see a confederate flag anywhere and it looks out of place when you do. We have few Pine trees, no Kudzu. We (usually) do have winters. There are no stores called Dixie this or that. Sweet Tea is the exception, not the rule. Southern food is a style of food rather than the local cuisine. Tulsa’s local food is steaks, burgers, Coney dogs and BBQ. Not catfish, fried chicken and grits. Tulsa has much more in common with Kansas City and Omaha and Wichita than it does with Little Rock or Atlanta or New Orleans. Oklahoma City seems more like Dallas or Ft Worth, but I wouldn’t call them southern either. Southwestern seems to make more sense. Southeast Oklahoma is certainly southern, but is also very different from the rest of the state.
Agree to disagree (we usually do!) on this one. Not my experience at all with Tulsa. While the young hipsters might be trying to fashion Tulsa into a "Midwestern" city, there's one problem---Tulsa is not in the Midwest. I think that should be a prerequisite. I understand the settlement patterns may be somewhat different in Tulsa....rich, Yankee oil barons, etc. But that influence, on the whole, is very minimal. Those asserting the tea-sippers hold a monopoly on Tulsa's culture might just be the descendents of said Yankee oil barons.
Moreover, my experience is that many in Tulsa, being on the eastern side of Oklahoma, sometimes have more Southern semblances that OK City. As I've stated before, I'm sure we probably run in different circles. Most of my extended family/friends from Tulsa are more blue-collar middle class.....and in many ways their twangs are worse than mine. Almost "drawly" and not naisly like we do in OK City (Truly.)
Ask yourself this question: Would someone from Detroit/Cincy/Toledo/Milwaukee/Chicago/St.Paul/et al. consider Tulsa part of the Midwest? Heck no!....from my experience (an Middle-Aged Okie traveling all over the United States) true Midwesterners would not. In fact, I've been to other parts of the country where folks I know from Tulsa are considered Southern....or at the very least, something different than "Midwestern." For instance, I was at the Phoenix airport and I overheard one of the attendants making fun of the "Southern" (and I think he also called it "backward") accent of one of the passengers. The passenger under consideration (according to the attendant) was from Tulsa. I've heard such comments, although usually not rude but more good natured ribbing, from folks from the true Midwest (Minnesota/Michigan/Wisconsin/Illinois/Ohio/the Dakotas/Nebraska/Kansas/Missouri/Indiana) when referring to Okies, and yes, some Tulsans are usually lumped in. Sorry to break to you, Swakester, but while their might be varied and distinct elements mixed into the Tulsa cultural milieu...at the end of the day Tulsa finds itself locked within Oklahoma's borders; and, in my book, that makes it an Oklahoma town, which clearly is not considered to be part of the Midwest by any credible/legitimate mapping organization I'm privy to.
Sure, Tulsa is not "like" Little Rock, but it certainly is more like Little Rock than most true Midwestern cities/towns (cf. many of the listed above). In the same way, Tulsa is certainly more culturally akin to OK City, Fort Worth, Dallas, Fayettville than most true Midwestern cities situated in true Midwest states.
The reality is, that Oklahoma (and the vast majority of Texas), in the main, is more Southern than anything else. I think SouthXSouthwest (or Southern Plains/South-Central) describes Oklahoma, and Tulsa for the most part, perfectly. Another thing that cannot be denied as well, is that once you get out of urban Tulsa, the towns surrounding Tulsa are more Southern than anything else. The Southern touches (just by speech patterns alone) are very prominent outside of our major cities in Oklahoma. That's a fact. If you don't call it Southern that is fine. But in no way could the culture of these towns be considered "Midwestern" when compared to the towns/states I listed above.
I understand folks wanting to change the perception of Oklahoma as the backward/hillbilly/Redneck nation. Of course, those that I rub elbows indulge in such appellations as a badge of honor. Just lets just be totally honest with the folks coming to this forum not from Oklahoma = Oklahoma is not in the Midwest, and therefore Tulsa cannot be part of the Midwest (even if it has a touch of Midwestern here and there, say like Louisville).
As always, agree to disagree. We're Okies before we're anything else. Darn proud of it too. Cheers.
Edit: I do agree with you that I don't know too many people (a few!) that are waving around the Rebel Flag. They're idiots. I'm NOT for that "the South will rise again" crud.
I’ve lived in the Midwest, and I’ve lived in the South in both Florida and the mid-Atlantic region. My mother’s family is from Alabama. My father lived for years in McAlester. My family has lived in the Tulsa area for over 100 years. I’ve lived in the Tulsa area, and in the Oklahoma City area. Tulsa is NOT a southern city. I cannot comment on what the perceptions are of people that may or may not have ever even been here, but distant and likely uninformed perceptions are not reality. McAlester is a bit like a southern town, but only a bit. While Tulsa is not like the often dying rust belt cities in Ohio or Michigan, the Tulsa area has much in common with cities in Kansas and Missouri and other nearby states. And with northern Texas. Much more than anything in Arkansas, and Arkansas is only a little like the deep south. You certainly will also find a drawl in the speech of rural people in southern Ohio, Kansas, Missouri, Illinois and even Pennsylvania. just like in Oklahoma.
I’ve lived in the Midwest, and I’ve lived in the South in both Florida and the mid-Atlantic region. My mother’s family is from Alabama. My father lived for years in McAlester. My family has lived in the Tulsa area for over 100 years. I’ve lived in the Tulsa area, and in the Oklahoma City area. Tulsa is NOT a southern city. I cannot comment on what the perceptions are of people that may or may not have ever even been here, but distant and likely uninformed perceptions are not reality. McAlester is a bit like a southern town, but only a bit. While Tulsa is not like the often dying rust belt cities in Ohio or Michigan, the Tulsa area has much in common with cities in Kansas and Missouri and other nearby states. And with northern Texas. Much more than anything in Arkansas, and Arkansas is only a little like the deep south. You certainly will also find a drawl in the speech of rural people in southern Ohio, Kansas, Missouri, Illinois and even Pennsylvania. just like in Oklahoma.
I hear ya.
The difference being, of course, that folks from Ohio/Kansas/Missouri/Illinois are undeniably and without question considered "Midwestern" because their states lie in the generally accepted geographical entity known as the "Midwest." With the exception of Kansas and the old cattle runs, Oklahoma, in general, is never lumped in with these states, neither historically nor in the present. There's a reason for that: Oklahoma is not in the Midwest.
Again, Tulsa may have Midwestern touches, say in the manner of Louisville. But overall, its culture is not "Midwestern" for the obvious reasons I listed in my other posts.
From my experience, the vast majority of Oklahomans and non-Okies seem to share my views on this matter. That should count for something. More importantly, one just needs to look at maps and study some history to make some well-reasoned conclusions in this dialogue.
And in one obvious regard I DO agree with you: Oklahoma (including Tulsa, which again, we have already established lies within state borders) is most like North Texas. If it is not Southern to you that is fine. Clearly, however, these geographic/cultural entities are not Midwestern. Don't call it the South or Midwest. Call it something else if that floats your boat.
I am from Southeastern Oklahoma and have lived in Tulsa for 16 years. I have also a degree in English with a French minor. I have never understood the desire for Tulsans to be from the "Midwest"----I am Southern and have always been. I don't use double negatives (ever) but I am proud to say "y'all" and when I'm upsetwith my husband have been known to say "Someone's fixin' to be sorry." When I was recently in Toronto, I had more than one Canadian complement me on the beauty of my Southern accent---and a woman who was from Tennessee heard me speaking while I was there. She ran over to me and told me she knew I was from the South the moment she heard me speak.
I am from Southeastern Oklahoma and have lived in Tulsa for 16 years. I have also a degree in English with a French minor. I have never understood the desire for Tulsans to be from the "Midwest"----I am Southern and have always been. I don't use double negatives (ever) but I am proud to say "y'all" and when I'm upsetwith my husband have been known to say "Someone's fixin' to be sorry." When I was recently in Toronto, I had more than one Canadian complement me on the beauty of my Southern accent---and a woman who was from Tennessee heard me speaking while I was there. She ran over to me and told me she knew I was from the South the moment she heard me speak.
Amen Sister! Rock that Oklahoma twang; I know I do!
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) on this one. Not my experience at all with Tulsa. While the young hipsters might be trying to fashion Tulsa into a "Midwestern" city, there's one problem---Tulsa is not in the Midwest. I think that should be a prerequisite.
I understand the settlement patterns may be somewhat different in Tulsa....rich, Yankee oil barons, etc. But that influence, on the whole, is very minimal. Those asserting the tea-sippers hold a monopoly on Tulsa's culture might just be the descendents of said Yankee oil barons.
Just lets just be totally honest with the folks coming to this forum not from Oklahoma = Oklahoma is not in the Midwest, and therefore Tulsa cannot be part of the Midwest (even if it has a touch of Midwestern here and there, say like Louisville).
