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If the neighbor's house lands on the door to your shelter, what are you going to do? Use your cell phone to call for help? (Cell towers in the area are gone, remember.)
The Police Chief of Moore said that they canvased the entire area and checked all storm shelters. So they would have found anybody who was trapped.
Anyways thats a lame excuse for not having a shelter. Would you rather be alive and trapped in your storm shelter, or just dead?
At Tower Elementary School, 75 children and staff were present when the tornado struck. Nine fatalities have been confirmed at the school. I think I come up with 12%. Or 88% lived.
Wow, nice odds. If a parent has five children in the same school. They can rest assured that if a tornado hits the school, three or four of their children will survive.
Well this is the best news I've heard to come out of this.
Moore Mayor Glenn Lewis said Wednesday he would propose an ordinance in the next couple of days to require all new homes to have storm shelters.
The city already has some. After a massive tornado tore a near-identical path in 1999, city authorities provided incentives such as federal grant dollars to help residents cover the costs of safe rooms. This time, though, Lewis thinks it is necessary to compel people to include them in all new construction.
I've been reading the obituaries of the people who died in Moore this past Monday. While to you this may be an exercise in abstract gamesmanship, to others it is not. I live in tornado alley. I've had tornadoes strike within a mile of where I live, where I work. I, like every other person, have budget constraints that govern whether I will or will not have a storm shelter. I live in the real world. You're not debating about the real world. You're debating about a world with unlimited resources, and how those resources should be appropriated. In a world with limited resources, people make decisions not based on the mere possibility, but on genuine risk. Moore, OK may be located in an area with the highest probability for significant tornadoes. But EF5's are still exceedingly rare, like a 9.8 earthquake is exceedingly rare, and the Moore tornado didn't obliterate the entire town. 55,000 people. 54,700 neither injured nor killed. If those 54,700 people on the average represent families of 3, and for each family a storm shelter is built at a cost of $5,000 (which is a reasonable cost, I've looked into installing one at my own home), that's $91,166,666.00. Where is that money supposed to come from? What do these people decide they don't need to pay for these shelters? Don't need schools, hospitals, fire departments, police departments, what? Public policy is based on efficacy. It's not based on your proposition that all risks, no matter how remote, should be eliminated.
OK, now take the $5000 and amortize it over a 30 year mortgage. The extra cost becomes pretty insignificant compared with the cost of injury or death. So I do not agree with the argument that $5000 on a NEW home is going to make or break the affordability of it. So I have a hard time understanding why it is not part of the municipal building code.
If those 54,700 people on the average represent families of 3, and for each family a storm shelter is built at a cost of $5,000 (which is a reasonable cost, I've looked into installing one at my own home), that's $91,166,666.00. Where is that money supposed to come from? What do these people decide they don't need to pay for these shelters? Don't need schools, hospitals, fire departments, police departments, what? Public policy is based on efficacy. It's not based on your proposition that all risks, no matter how remote, should be eliminated.
People who claim that $5,000 is too much and they cannot afford it are the same people who don't buy insurance because it is too "expensive". I would wager that most of the people who died in this disaster were in families who owned two cars, had a "big screen TV" and went on one or two or even more vacations every year. I bet they ate fast food and had video game consoles. I bet they spent HUNDREDS of dollars every single Christmas buying worthless presents for people who didn't even care about them. I bet some of them went to the beauty shop every week or month and got their hair "highlighted" and got acrylic nails. Most likely some of the men had a boat, or a motorcycle or an ATV that they didn't use on the farm. Probably more than one or two had recently remodeled their kitchen or bathroom or put in a hot tub or a pool
THAT my friend is where their money went because it was more important to them to have "things" and look cool and keep up with their neighbors than to protect their family by installing a tornado shelter to protect their family from a storm that will "probably never happen anyway".
People who claim that $5,000 is too much and they cannot afford it are the same people who don't buy insurance because it is too "expensive". I would wager that most of the people who died in this disaster were in families who owned two cars, had a "big screen TV" and went on one or two or even more vacations every year. I bet they ate fast food and had video game consoles. I bet they spent HUNDREDS of dollars every single Christmas buying worthless presents for people who didn't even care about them. I bet some of them went to the beauty shop every week or month and got their hair "highlighted" and got acrylic nails. Most likely some of the men had a boat, or a motorcycle or an ATV that they didn't use on the farm. Probably more than one or two had recently remodeled their kitchen or bathroom or put in a hot tub or a pool
THAT my friend is where their money went because it was more important to them to have "things" and look cool and keep up with their neighbors than to protect their family by installing a tornado shelter to protect their family from a storm that will "probably never happen anyway".
It's all about priorities, my friend.
20yrsinBranson
I'm one of those people who claim that $5000 is too much. I don't have two cars (but I don't think that's extravagant if you have more than 1 person working--public transportation isn't all that widely available, and a car is a necessity in many places), I don't have a big-screen TV, I haven't had a vacation in five years, I do eat fast food every once in a while, but I cook just about every day. I don't have any video game consoles. I do spend money on Christmas for family whom I hope care about me. I get my hair cut about every 3 - 4 months, and I've NEVER had acrylic nails. No boat, no motorcycle, no ATV. I'd love to get my circa-1962 kitchen remodeled. No hot tub, no pool. You were saying?
Yes, it's all about priorities. And a shelter is a good thing to have. I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting one. I also don't make a lot of false statements about people who don't choose to get one. I actually respect that it's about priorities. And avoiding the one in two million chance that someone dies in a tornado, versus paying for a child's dental care for the year is a choice I can understand.
I'm one of those people who claim that $5000 is too much. I don't have two cars (but I don't think that's extravagant if you have more than 1 person working--public transportation isn't all that widely available, and a car is a necessity in many places), I don't have a big-screen TV, I haven't had a vacation in five years, I do eat fast food every once in a while, but I cook just about every day. I don't have any video game consoles. I do spend money on Christmas for family whom I hope care about me. I get my hair cut about every 3 - 4 months, and I've NEVER had acrylic nails. No boat, no motorcycle, no ATV. I'd love to get my circa-1962 kitchen remodeled. No hot tub, no pool. You were saying?
You Are The Exception To The Rule.......
Quote:
Yes, it's all about priorities. And a shelter is a good thing to have. I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting one. I also don't make a lot of false statements about people who don't choose to get one. I actually respect that it's about priorities. And avoiding the one in two million chance that someone dies in a tornado, versus paying for a child's dental care for the year is a choice I can understand.
I was raise in MSA/CSA Tulsa OK 1952 to 1976 , but have been out in California for nearly 35 yrs...
( The Nanny State )( Oklahoma is the Anti - Nanny State) , and I understand both states " however
I think that California is right for me and my family let the Government mandate Earthquake Build-
ing Codes for the good of the people of California.
If Oklahoma Adults don't want to have " Tornado Shelters " for theirs family home ( so be it ) , but
don't be stupid and not build them at all public schools.....
The Oklahoma State Government could take the position of having LOANS at the very LEAST charging
1% interest on a 5,000 Dollars loan to be paid back in 4 to 10 years " what is that 50.00 to 60.00
dollars a month.
I could possibly understand not building a shelter at a home if only for the reason that houses are dispersed, low density populations. But there is no excuse for not having a shelter at a building with hundreds of people, like a school.
You're from Minnesota, just like me. You well know that the sirens go off all the time in the summer, and most people ignore them. If they do pay attention, go down to the basement, and turn on the TV, the weather people never have any idea where the tornados are until after they've been spotted. Oh, they see something on their radar that might be a tornado almost always isn't.
And we don't have shelters in the schools here either. Why's that? Because the schools are about the sturdiest buildings around and there are lots of windowless hallways to take shelter in, that's why.
I live a couple of blocks from where there was a tornado on Portland Ave in Minneapolis a few years ago, and we had no idea that it had happened until we saw it on the news. How can you possibly live here and not seem to know what these things are like?
Last edited by Glenfield; 05-24-2013 at 08:30 PM..
I'm one of those people who claim that $5000 is too much. I don't have two cars (but I don't think that's extravagant if you have more than 1 person working--public transportation isn't all that widely available, and a car is a necessity in many places), I don't have a big-screen TV, I haven't had a vacation in five years, I do eat fast food every once in a while, but I cook just about every day. I don't have any video game consoles. I do spend money on Christmas for family whom I hope care about me. I get my hair cut about every 3 - 4 months, and I've NEVER had acrylic nails. No boat, no motorcycle, no ATV. I'd love to get my circa-1962 kitchen remodeled. No hot tub, no pool. You were saying?
Yes, it's all about priorities. And a shelter is a good thing to have. I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting one. I also don't make a lot of false statements about people who don't choose to get one. I actually respect that it's about priorities. And avoiding the one in two million chance that someone dies in a tornado, versus paying for a child's dental care for the year is a choice I can understand.
Nobody will see their dental work if they are laying in a casket.
First of all, $5,000 is an arbitrary figure. My dh and I got our storm shelter installed for $3,999. And secondly, I applaud your frugality, but it sounds like you need to pick up a second job on a temporary basis so that you can take better care of your family.
You're from Minnesota, just like me. You well know that the sirens go off all the time in the summer, and most people ignore them. If they do pay attention, go down to the basement, and turn on the TV, the weather people never have any idea where the tornados are until after they've been spotted. Oh, they see something on their radar that might be a tornado almost always isn't.
And we don't have shelters in the schools here either. Why's that? Because the schools are about the sturdiest buildings around and there are lots of windowless hallways to take shelter in, that's why.
I live a couple of blocks from where there was a tornado on Portland Ave in Minneapolis a few years ago, and we had no idea that it had happened until we saw it on the news. How can you possibly live here and not seem to know what these things are like?
Minnesota and Oklahoma are apples and oranges when it comes to tornados IMHO. The entire state of Oklahoma is ground zero and should be a the forefront for tornado precautions preparedness.
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If a parent has five children in the same school. They can rest assured that if a tornado hits the school, three or four of their children will survive.
You Are The Exception To The Rule.......
