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Keep dreaming. You ain't seen nothing yet. It's going to get a hundred times worse. Over 40 years ago voters decided that the poor just weren't poor enough and the rich just weren't rich enough. No wage can be too low, and no rent can be too high. And that needed to be corrected. So we got trickle-down economics, aka voodoo economics. That train wreck is still going full speed and it's not going to stop anytime soon. Homelessness has been increasing every year for the last 40 years and it will increase every year for the next 40 years. All this will do is push the homeless from one area to another and then back again. But they will be everywhere. Including in your nice parks and on your nice beaches.
Income inequality is a serious issue. I don't disagree with you on the impact to our society. I do think that some jurisdictions are working hard on solutions.
I also know that multi-family living is here to stay like in many cultures. It has just been something that has been looked down upon in the US, but there are a lot of younger people living with family.
I know here that Salem PD has said that something like 95% of our local homeless are using fentanyl so our solution has to be something else here.
Income inequality is a serious issue. I don't disagree with you on the impact to our society. I do think that some jurisdictions are working hard on solutions.
I also know that multi-family living is here to stay like in many cultures. It has just been something that has been looked down upon in the US, but there are a lot of younger people living with family.
I know here that Salem PD has said that something like 95% of our local homeless are using fentanyl so our solution has to be something else here.
Of course the cops are going to say that. Give us more money so we can fight this war on drugs that we have been losing for the last 52 years.
Blame it all on drugs. Because poor education, lack of jobs, low wages, high rents, and lack of affordable housing and healthcare services couldn't have anything to do with it. All of which exist in Oregon.
The problem with all of this is that there isn't just one "homeless problem". There are multiple homeless problems that aren't necessarily that closely related. And each one has different causes and solutions.
First are the visible homeless that we see on the streets and I'd put them into perhaps 3 separate categories:
Addicts and substance abusers. These used to be the heroin addicts and winos of decades past but are not mostly meth and fentanyl addicts. They have thrown away their lives to be addicts and many are drug tourists who migrate to places like Portland and San Francisco for the easy drugs. Many actually have homes they could go back to in theory but they have often burned too many bridges. I have a co-worker who's 20-something daughter is a street addict. They finally had to throw her out after too much thievery and abuse including things like showing up at their house in the middle of the night with her addict boyfriends to rob and assault them. In theory she still has her childhood bedroom to return to if she actually wanted to clean up her act. The only real answer for these people is to re-criminalize drug use and pour funds into mandatory rehab centers so that the courts can divert them into MANDATORY rehab as alternatives to prison. When drug use is legal, society has no real leverage to force these people to get help.
Mentally Ill: These folks are similar to the addicts and there is a lot of crossover. Many were victims of abuse as were many homeless addicts. But again, as with the addicts, society needs stronger leverage in order to force these people to get help. And also more facilities to provide them with help. Getting them off the street is going to require both a LOT of money and new laws to allow for more involuntary commitment. That might mean diversionary sentencing as with the druggies such that when they run afoul of the law the courts can use involuntary mental health commitment as an alternative to prison.
Lifestyle homeless: These are the drifter kids who just like living on the edge of society. The modern hippies if you will. Some are also druggies. And some are also in criminal gangs doing things like bike theft. Many are from middle class backgrounds and would have homes to go back to in theory. There is no particular reason to tolerate them camping in public. They are just being anti-social by choice.
And then there are the 'invisible" homeless who are mostly economic.
Economic homeless: These are people who for whatever series of circumstances, job loss, divorce, breakups, debt, bad decisions, have wound up homeless. Mostly these are the invisible homeless. You don't find them camping in blue tarps on city streets or public parks. More likely they are sleeping in their cars in rest stops or Wal-Mart parking lots or just stealth camping around in vans and such staying under the radar. Or bouncing around different couch surfing and cheap motel situations. Many also have jobs and might even be full-time employed. Watch Nomadland starring Francis McDormand for an excellent portrayal of this life. These are the people for whom low income housing assistance programs often work. And for whom a general reduction in the cost and availability of housing will also help. Since these folks are the easiest to help, they are often first in line when it comes to low income housing programs. Because their primary problem is economic and that is easily fixed with money. But since they are largely "Invisible" it means that we can have programs that are providing housing to thousands of people but it doesn't make a visible dent in the street vagrant population since the people such programs tend to help were invisible and not part of the other three homeless populations above.
In any event, none of this is really rocket science. If you don't want homeless all over the place, put in enough shelter space to accommodate all of them and then sweep them all off the streets. It can be done. Turkey is a much poorer country than the US and has housed more than 3 million Syrian refugees from the war across its border. Mostly in cheap pre-fab refugee housing thrown up around the edges of towns by the tens of thousands. Portland could do this in 6 months if they really had the political will. These sorts of camps are everywhere in eastern Syria. Don't futz around with "bespoke" handmade tiny houses a dozen at a time. Drop these sorts of prefab shelters by the hundreds into vacant land around the edge of town until you have enough. There are about 300 shelters in this picture alone.
And then long-term legalize the private sector to build cheap housing like we used to do. I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of immigrant families in Portland who would jump at the chance to build and operate private single-room occupancy boarding houses if it was legal to do such a thing. The same sort of thing that was ubiquitous in every city in the country 100 years ago before we tore them all down in the name of urban renewal. Roger Miller really did get it right. We need more of these:
Quote:
Trailer's for sale or rent
Rooms to let, 50 cents
No phone, no pool, no pets
I ain't got no cigarettes
Ah, but, two hours of pushin' broom
Buys an eight by twelve four-bit room
I'm a man of means by no means
King of the road
--Roger Miller
In the end, we are never going to completely solve addiction, mental illness, crime, or poverty. Those things will always be with us. But we can, in fact, clean up our streets and parks and return to a society with more civilized public spaces if we have the political will.
Last edited by texasdiver; 01-19-2024 at 12:27 PM..
Of course the cops are going to say that. Give us more money so we can fight this war on drugs that we have been losing for the last 52 years.
Blame it all on drugs. Because poor education, lack of jobs, low wages, high rents, and lack of affordable housing and healthcare services couldn't have anything to do with it. All of which exist in Oregon.
I'm not remotely blaming it all on drugs. I think mental health issues/poor life skills are a much bigger cause. Many people turn to drugs as a result of being homeless. It doesn't change the fact that many are addicted now. Taking someone addicted to fentanyl and giving them a job isn't a solution.
You forgot mental health issues, by the way.
I'm not aware that the SPD is asking for more money to fight drugs and homelessness. They are asking for more money to fight violent crime as we are short police officers for the size of the city.
San Fran looks at what triggered their homeless to become homeless in their point-in-time survey. The top 6 causes were
21% lost their job
14% were evicted
12% was their alcohol and drug use
9% argued with their families
7% said they have mental health issues
7% had incarceration/probation restrictions.
Oregonians won't be any different.
On a side note, 23% of the people they surveyed had been in foster care. There are long-term strategies required to prevent homelessness. Then there are immediate strategies to help people. These are not the same thing.
San Fran looks at what triggered their homeless to become homeless in their point-in-time survey. The top 6 causes were
21% lost their job
14% were evicted
12% was their alcohol and drug use
9% argued with their families
7% said they have mental health issues
7% had incarceration/probation restrictions.
Based on my experience:
Some percentage of those 21% who lost their jobs, lost them due to addiction and substance abuse which made them into completely unreliable workers
Some percentage of those 14% who were evicted were evicted due to problems arising from addiction and substance abuse
A big percentage of those 9% who argued with their families were arguing about their increasingly anti-social behavior fueled by drug abuse, which got them kicked out of their homes in the first place.
And a very big portion of those 7% with incarceration problems were incarcerated for some sort of offense related to drug abuse (dealing drugs, doing crime to support drug habits, or committing acts of random violence or domestic violence fueled by drug abuse).
And I suspect these statistics are for total homeless including all those largely invisible homeless who are couch surfing or perhaps stealth living out of their cars while holding down regular jobs. If we are talking about the visible homeless living in blue tarp shelters on neighborhood sidewalks surrounded by a dumpster explosion of filth, then the percentage who have some connection to drugs ands/or mental illness probably approaches 100%.
I'm not remotely blaming it all on drugs. I think mental health issues/poor life skills are a much bigger cause. Many people turn to drugs as a result of being homeless. It doesn't change the fact that many are addicted now. Taking someone addicted to fentanyl and giving them a job isn't a solution.
You forgot mental health issues, by the way.
I'm not aware that the SPD is asking for more money to fight drugs and homelessness. They are asking for more money to fight violent crime as we are short police officers for the size of the city.
San Fran looks at what triggered their homeless to become homeless in their point-in-time survey. The top 6 causes were
21% lost their job
14% were evicted
12% was their alcohol and drug use
9% argued with their families
7% said they have mental health issues
7% had incarceration/probation restrictions.
Oregonians won't be any different.
On a side note, 23% of the people they surveyed had been in foster care. There are long-term strategies required to prevent homelessness. Then there are immediate strategies to help people. These are not the same thing.
I didn't forget it. I just thought the list was long enough, so I left that with lack of healthcare services.
Anyway I do think that blaming drugs and mental issues are scapegoats for the real problems which are low wages and lack of affordable housing. Also it's not inconceivable that homelessness is causing mental health issues and drug abuse. If I was sleeping on a sidewalk every night, I might start considering using drugs too.
This state hasn't built any substantial amount of affordable housing since the mid-1970s. He housing project I'm living in was built in 1976. Virtually every single other housing project in the rural areas of Oregon were built in the early to mid 1970s. You might be able to find a few built in the 1980s and 90s, but nothing since then. I haven't tried to verify it, but I expect the same is true for the Portland Metro Area.
The problem with all of this is that there isn't just one "homeless problem". There are multiple homeless problems that aren't necessarily that closely related. And each one has different causes and solutions.
First are the visible homeless that we see on the streets and I'd put them into perhaps 3 separate categories:
Addicts and substance abusers. These used to be the heroin addicts and winos of decades past but are not mostly meth and fentanyl addicts. They have thrown away their lives to be addicts and many are drug tourists who migrate to places like Portland and San Francisco for the easy drugs. Many actually have homes they could go back to in theory but they have often burned too many bridges. I have a co-worker who's 20-something daughter is a street addict. They finally had to throw her out after too much thievery and abuse including things like showing up at their house in the middle of the night with her addict boyfriends to rob and assault them. In theory she still has her childhood bedroom to return to if she actually wanted to clean up her act. The only real answer for these people is to re-criminalize drug use and pour funds into mandatory rehab centers so that the courts can divert them into MANDATORY rehab as alternatives to prison. When drug use is legal, society has no real leverage to force these people to get help.
Mentally Ill: These folks are similar to the addicts and there is a lot of crossover. Many were victims of abuse as were many homeless addicts. But again, as with the addicts, society needs stronger leverage in order to force these people to get help. And also more facilities to provide them with help. Getting them off the street is going to require both a LOT of money and new laws to allow for more involuntary commitment. That might mean diversionary sentencing as with the druggies such that when they run afoul of the law the courts can use involuntary mental health commitment as an alternative to prison.
Lifestyle homeless: These are the drifter kids who just like living on the edge of society. The modern hippies if you will. Some are also druggies. And some are also in criminal gangs doing things like bike theft. Many are from middle class backgrounds and would have homes to go back to in theory. There is no particular reason to tolerate them camping in public. They are just being anti-social by choice.
And then there are the 'invisible" homeless who are mostly economic.
Economic homeless: These are people who for whatever series of circumstances, job loss, divorce, breakups, debt, bad decisions, have wound up homeless. Mostly these are the invisible homeless. You don't find them camping in blue tarps on city streets or public parks. More likely they are sleeping in their cars in rest stops or Wal-Mart parking lots or just stealth camping around in vans and such staying under the radar. Or bouncing around different couch surfing and cheap motel situations. Many also have jobs and might even be full-time employed. Watch Nomadland starring Francis McDormand for an excellent portrayal of this life. These are the people for whom low income housing assistance programs often work. And for whom a general reduction in the cost and availability of housing will also help. Since these folks are the easiest to help, they are often first in line when it comes to low income housing programs. Because their primary problem is economic and that is easily fixed with money. But since they are largely "Invisible" it means that we can have programs that are providing housing to thousands of people but it doesn't make a visible dent in the street vagrant population since the people such programs tend to help were invisible and not part of the other three homeless populations above.
In any event, none of this is really rocket science. If you don't want homeless all over the place, put in enough shelter space to accommodate all of them and then sweep them all off the streets. It can be done. Turkey is a much poorer country than the US and has housed more than 3 million Syrian refugees from the war across its border. Mostly in cheap pre-fab refugee housing thrown up around the edges of towns by the tens of thousands. Portland could do this in 6 months if they really had the political will. These sorts of camps are everywhere in eastern Syria. Don't futz around with "bespoke" handmade tiny houses a dozen at a time. Drop these sorts of prefab shelters by the hundreds into vacant land around the edge of town until you have enough. There are about 300 shelters in this picture alone.
And then long-term legalize the private sector to build cheap housing like we used to do. I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of immigrant families in Portland who would jump at the chance to build and operate private single-room occupancy boarding houses if it was legal to do such a thing. The same sort of thing that was ubiquitous in every city in the country 100 years ago before we tore them all down in the name of urban renewal. Roger Miller really did get it right. We need more of these:
In the end, we are never going to completely solve addiction, mental illness, crime, or poverty. Those things will always be with us. But we can, in fact, clean up our streets and parks and return to a society with more civilized public spaces if we have the political will.
When I first moved to the Coos Bay Area 10 years ago there was still a large 9 story hotel Downtown that rented out rooms for $600 a month. Since then the building has been remodeled into an apartment building. It appears the prices for the apartments start at over $1,000 a month, with most of the units priced well above that.
These days landlords will let apartments or rooms sit vacant, rather then rent them out for anything less than $1,000 a month. They don't even want to bother collecting rent for less than that.
Some percentage of those 21% who lost their jobs, lost them due to addiction and substance abuse which made them into completely unreliable workers
Some percentage of those 14% who were evicted were evicted due to problems arising from addiction and substance abuse
A big percentage of those 9% who argued with their families were arguing about their increasingly anti-social behavior fueled by drug abuse, which got them kicked out of their homes in the first place.
And a very big portion of those 7% with incarceration problems were incarcerated for some sort of offense related to drug abuse (dealing drugs, doing crime to support drug habits, or committing acts of random violence or domestic violence fueled by drug abuse).
And I suspect these statistics are for total homeless including all those largely invisible homeless who are couch surfing or perhaps stealth living out of their cars while holding down regular jobs. If we are talking about the visible homeless living in blue tarp shelters on neighborhood sidewalks surrounded by a dumpster explosion of filth, then the percentage who have some connection to drugs ands/or mental illness probably approaches 100%.
Yes I think the job loss, eviction, etc are all part of mental health/behavioral issues that can be tied together with drug/alcohol abuse.
The tenting homeless is what Salem PD was referring to when they said the drug abuse rate was that high.
When I first moved to the Coos Bay Area 10 years ago there was still a large 9 story hotel Downtown that rented out rooms for $600 a month.
Back in the 1800s, boarding houses were 30-50% of rentals because we have always had working poor. Salem has this cool old boarding house on Center Street that houses 13 units. They have a kitchenette, living room, and small bedroom and the shared bathroom on the floor is down the hall. I was in it and the rooms were rented between $800-$900 a month and the owner had done a great job in restoring the old property. That rent included all utility costs. When I walked into it a few years ago, I thought this was the missing piece. Salem needed to have more boarding houses.
Bathrooms and kitchens are a HUGE expense in the building of homes. If you can reduce the number needed, you can have more affordable housing.
The housing bill that passed last year increased the amount of people you can have in one. It was limited to 5 in Salem and then you had to go through a permitting process to allow more, which costs money, which means higher rents. They banned boarding houses with zoning laws, and they were looked down upon by developers and lenders.
Salem had a height restriction up until a couple of years ago that made developing tall buildings difficult. I think 10 floors was the highest and they raised it to 14 floors with the last comprehensive plan change. What developers have told me is that due to the costs of construction, you can't build a 10-story building and have it pencil out. You need 12-14 floors which wasn't allowed in Salem until recently. Downtown should already have much taller buildings but we don't because of that rule.
It is complicated and multi-faceted to make progress on homelessness both in the short term and long term.
Of course the cops are going to say that. Give us more money so we can fight this war on drugs that we have been losing for the last 52 years.
Blame it all on drugs. Because poor education, lack of jobs, low wages, high rents, and lack of affordable housing and healthcare services couldn't have anything to do with it. All of which exist in Oregon.
Most if not all of the items you mention are readily available to all who contribute to Society. American Capitalism and Free Markets have created the most amazingly efficient machine to create and distribute goods and services the world has ever seen.
Why do you think hundreds of thousands are always trying to enter this country?
How long is the illegal line of people trying to enter China, Russia or N Korea where the state is primary decider of distribution. State Gov't of Oregon cannot solve these issues anymore than my dog could perform heart surgery.
There will always be people who have CHOSEN to make bad decisions. It is not incumbent on local or State Gov't to fix them. Your old, Bernie Sanders style clap trap has been proven wrong so many times that you embarrass yourself by always reverting back to it as some sort of solution.
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