Custodian at Grand Floridian told managers of alligators (Orlando: hotels, attorneys)

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

It's freaking Florida! There are alligators EVERYWHERE. Should we have signs and fences posted at EVERY tourist destination??? What about sharks at the beach? Go to Guyana, for instance and stay at a high end resort. Do they need signs there warning of potential beasts lurking in the waters and jungles? No, because people know that it's a tropical environment, and with that comes all kinds of large animals.
Florida is the continental US's one tropical state. Why don't people get this? There are gators, snakes, large four-legged animals, huge birds, etc.

Of course there are alligators in that lake. It's HUGE and is connected to Bay Lake. The managers knew about this. This custodian didn't inform anyone of any news.

Not everyone is from Florida. I moved to Florida from Arizona. When people moved to Arizona, they didn't know how prevalent coyotes and scorpions are. And in our mountain communities in Phoenix like Fountain Hlls, they have bobcats and mountain lions. No one knows that unless they are from here. Likewise, when I moved to Florida, I had no idea how prevalent gators were. Sure, I associated gators and the state of Florida and had seen them occasionally on a golf course, but I didn't know they were ambush predators and they were so prevalent. To assume everyone knows this is asinine.

Furthermore, why not err on the side of caution. Let consumers make that choice. Post signs and inform people. I'm certain a lot of parents would rather avoid certain areas if they knew gators could come on the beach.

I live in South Florida. When we think of Orlando, we think everything is artificial and man-made. We don't compare it to the Everglades or rural parts of undeveloped Florida. Even people here are surprised by those events. We know gators can appear anywhere but that is Disney's flagship hotel and they charge $500-$1000 per night so people naturally assume Disney goes out of it's way to ensure the safety of it's guests. I would have never feared gators snatching kids at the Grand Floridian of all resorts.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

"Wading" in the water. In the dark. With "steep drop" postage.

Have you actually stayed there? Reading about it and seeing the Grand Floridian beach up close are two different things. I have stayed there multiple times. I am an educated person who is a cardiology attending at the University of Miami and Baptist Hospital. I can EASILY see how this could have happened to me or any other parent. The beach is not very large. It is very unassuming. The resorts practically invite guests to explore the area. There are white posted signs that are far apart from one another. However, people assume "No Swimming" can be due to a lot of reasons most likely discouraging people from swimming due to no life guard present and not due to fear of wildlife.

Also, the child was not swimming. He was at the edge of the water. His parents were supervising him. Alligators are ambush predators. They snatched the child and both parents tried to pry away their child but couldn't due the thousands of pounds of force of the jaws of the alligator. The child could have been on the white sand completely dry and the same could have happened. It's just completely asinine for you to blame the parents in this case.

For the record, I love Disney. I would still stay at the Grand Floridian and would encourage others to experience it, because it's truly a world class resort. I think this is tragic as well. However, I do think Disney could have done more to ensure the safety of it's guests in my humble opinion.

[LuvOrlando]

Tourists are almost NEVER thinking about gators when they go to Disney World. They're thinking Mickey Mouse, Space Mountain, fireworks, big castle, "We cannot have sex with the kids in the room...because they might wake up, that's why", that stuff.

They just don't think about it. Call them stupid if you like, but they aren't thinking "Alligator!" when they see the pretty lake, the way Floridians would. That's why nice people put up signs. We know they aren't thinking that and we want to give them a heads up.

Many places have signs. Disney used to have signs.

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Have you actually stayed there? Reading about it and seeing the Grand Floridian beach up close are two different things. I have stayed there multiple times. I am an educated person who is a cardiology attending at the University of Miami and Baptist Hospital. I can EASILY see how this could have happened to me or any other parent. The beach is not very large. It is very unassuming. The resorts practically invite guests to explore the area. There are white posted signs that are far apart from one another. However, people assume "No Swimming" can be due to a lot of reasons most likely discouraging people from swimming due to no life guard present and not due to fear of wildlife.

Also, the child was not swimming. He was at the edge of the water. His parents were supervising him. Alligators are ambush predators. They snatched the child and both parents tried to pry away their child but couldn't due the thousands of pounds of force of the jaws of the alligator. The child could have been on the white sand completely dry and the same could have happened. It's just completely asinine for you to blame the parents in this case.

For the record, I love Disney. I would still stay at the Grand Floridian and would encourage others to experience it, because it's truly a world class resort. I think this is tragic as well. However, I do think Disney could have done more to ensure the safety of it's guests in my humble opinion.

Yes, I have been there several times. Victoria & Albert's is my favorite fine dining spot in FL.

I'm not "blaming" the parents. I just disagree that posting alligator signs is the right solution. There should not be beaches there. I've never been a fan of these "beaches" around lakes, but for some reason, they are everywhere in FL.
Like you said, the child could have been on dry sand and the same thing could have happened; so how would posting "alligators in lake" help?

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by LuvOrlando

Tourists are almost NEVER thinking about gators when they go to Disney World. They're thinking Mickey Mouse, Space Mountain, fireworks, big castle, "We cannot have sex with the kids in the room...because they might wake up, that's why", that stuff.

They just don't think about it. Call them stupid if you like, but they aren't thinking "Alligator!" when they see the pretty lake, the way Floridians would. That's why nice people put up signs. We know they aren't thinking that and we want to give them a heads up.

Many places have signs. Disney used to have signs.

You are correct. The solution is to not encourage them to lounge/play with small kids near waters teeming with wildlife -- hence, remove the beaches.

Side note: How does Lake Eola keep alligators and snakes out? The water is always crystal clear, and I have never seen anything but swans and other huge birds, fish, and turtles.

[vacoder]

I read in one article there is a small pond somewhere on the property that has a "Do not feed or go near the alligators" sign.

[LuvOrlando]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

You are correct. The solution is to not encourage them to lounge/play with small kids near waters teeming with wildlife -- hence, remove the beaches.

Side note: How does Lake Eola keep alligators and snakes out? The water is always crystal clear, and I have never seen anything but swans and other huge birds, fish, and turtles.

I don't know how they do it. I didn't even know that they did it.

If it were me, I wouldn't remove the beaches. I'd put up signs warning people of the danger. I'd have the international "No swimming" symbol and a picture of a gator for those who cannot understand the words.

[LuvOrlando]

Originally Posted by vacoder

I read in one article there is a small pond somewhere on the property that has a "Do not feed or go near the alligators" sign.

Don't feed ANY wildlife. When you toss them food, you're essentially killing them. They'll want more food and become pests and will then be killed off.

If you want to feed a gator, go to Gatorland. They have gator-feeding there, for the very brave (or very stupid, I'm not sure which, but they have that available if you pay extra.)

[vacoder]

Originally Posted by LuvOrlando

Don't feed ANY wildlife. When you toss them food, you're essentially killing them. They'll want more food and become pests and will then be killed off.

If you want to feed a gator, go to Gatorland. They have gator-feeding there, for the very brave (or very stupid, I'm not sure which, but they have that available if you pay extra.)

I realize that. I just found it strange that Disney would post that sign on a little pond but not on the big lake with the beach.

[LuvOrlando]

Originally Posted by vacoder

I realize that. I just found it strange that Disney would post that sign on a little pond but not on the big lake with the beach.

I think they used to have signs warning about the gators everywhere and removed them from some (or all) of those locations. Nobody seems to know why they were removed, though.