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This isn't really related to the other thread going on at the moment about classroom management techniques but it had me thinking about other management techniques that go on.
What do think about 'mass punishment' of entire classes over the actions of some in the class? Fair? Not fair?
For example, just recently my 13 year old son had a substitute teacher for one of his classes. And the majority of them were pains in the butt...not all of them, but a lot of them. One of the APs told them what he thought of them and every single kid in the class was assigned an extra homework "punishment" essay about classroom conduct/disruptive behavior/respect etc - even the ones who may have been sitting quietly, 'being good'.
Well I asked my son if he had been disruptive, "..........yup" (aha, surprise) so this didn't bother me.
But how would you feel if you had one of the kids who had been 'quiet & good'? Would you call it unfair, would it bother you, or would you just think 'no harm done'?
This isn't really related to the other thread going on at the moment about classroom management techniques but it had me thinking about other management techniques that go on.
What do think about 'mass punishment' of entire classes over the actions of some in the class? Fair? Not fair?
For example, just recently my 13 year old son had a substitute teacher for one of his classes. And the majority of them were pains in the butt...not all of them, but a lot of them. One of the APs told them what he thought of them and every single kid in the class was assigned an extra homework "punishment" essay about classroom conduct/disruptive behavior/respect etc - even the ones who may have been sitting quietly, 'being good'.
Well I asked my son if he had been disruptive, "..........yup" (aha, surprise) so this didn't bother me.
But how would you feel if you had one of the kids who had been 'quiet & good'? Would you call it unfair, would it bother you, or would you just think 'no harm done'?
If this is the only method of classroom management used then it is guaranteed to end with none of the kids ever behaving. If you know that at least one person will misbehave and you will be punished anyway why would you bother to behave yourself?
My older daughter was once mass punished by a substitute, and my daughter wasn't one of the students who were misbehaving (now, if it were my younger daughter...probably a different story). In my daughter's case, the class lost a recess. I just told her that this happens sometimes, and that the people she should be mad at are her classmates who aren't conducting themselves appropriately. Honestly, losing a recess isn't going to damage her, nor would writing an essay about classroom conduct. It's not something that I'm going to battle over.
I understand why it is done, but I do have a problem with it. My kids have goals they have to meet at the end of each week to earn privileges such as completing all homework for the week, tidying their rooms, reasonable behavior, and not getting into trouble at school. If they meet those goals they get their allowance, and earn privileges such as going to the movies, etc. It's really hard to remain consistent with discipline when you know the entire class got into trouble say at the cafeteria, and your child may have had nothing to do with it, but still earned a behavior mark. I think the problem comes because not enough people are reinforcing the behavior issues at home. The kid may get into trouble at school, but nothing happens at home, no discussion, nothing. Perhaps the logic is that if the peers are suffering, maybe they'll step in and discourage the bad behavior. I think it's a lot to ask for the kids to police one another, but maybe it works.
Excellent point, Zimbochick, and we do something very similar here. When it happened to our daughter, we explained to her that we weren't counting the behavior mark at home because everyone in the class got the same mark. I don't like mass punishment either, but I understand that sometimes the teacher just gets fed up. And I agree with you that at least part of the problem is that parents aren't following up with consequences at home.
This isn't really related to the other thread going on at the moment about classroom management techniques but it had me thinking about other management techniques that go on.
What do think about 'mass punishment' of entire classes over the actions of some in the class? Fair? Not fair?
For example, just recently my 13 year old son had a substitute teacher for one of his classes. And the majority of them were pains in the butt...not all of them, but a lot of them. One of the APs told them what he thought of them and every single kid in the class was assigned an extra homework "punishment" essay about classroom conduct/disruptive behavior/respect etc - even the ones who may have been sitting quietly, 'being good'.
Well I asked my son if he had been disruptive, "..........yup" (aha, surprise) so this didn't bother me.
But how would you feel if you had one of the kids who had been 'quiet & good'? Would you call it unfair, would it bother you, or would you just think 'no harm done'?
Well, I can think of cases in real life in which masses of people are punished for the bad behavior of a few. For example, taxpayers get punished for the stupid spending habits of politicians. Or, individual Americans often get blamed for the foreign policy of the U.S. when they travel (even if they don't agree with it). So, to that I say maybe it will motivate the good behaving kids to encourage those who are misbehaving to clean up their acts. Just like we need to motivate our politicians to clean up their acts.
This isn't really related to the other thread going on at the moment about classroom management techniques but it had me thinking about other management techniques that go on.
What do think about 'mass punishment' of entire classes over the actions of some in the class? Fair? Not fair?
For example, just recently my 13 year old son had a substitute teacher for one of his classes. And the majority of them were pains in the butt...not all of them, but a lot of them. One of the APs told them what he thought of them and every single kid in the class was assigned an extra homework "punishment" essay about classroom conduct/disruptive behavior/respect etc - even the ones who may have been sitting quietly, 'being good'.
Well I asked my son if he had been disruptive, "..........yup" (aha, surprise) so this didn't bother me.
But how would you feel if you had one of the kids who had been 'quiet & good'? Would you call it unfair, would it bother you, or would you just think 'no harm done'?
Tell my child to not do it and tell the teacher to call me if they have an issue with it.
This isn't really related to the other thread going on at the moment about classroom management techniques but it had me thinking about other management techniques that go on.
What do think about 'mass punishment' of entire classes over the actions of some in the class? Fair? Not fair?
For example, just recently my 13 year old son had a substitute teacher for one of his classes. And the majority of them were pains in the butt...not all of them, but a lot of them. One of the APs told them what he thought of them and every single kid in the class was assigned an extra homework "punishment" essay about classroom conduct/disruptive behavior/respect etc - even the ones who may have been sitting quietly, 'being good'.
Well I asked my son if he had been disruptive, "..........yup" (aha, surprise) so this didn't bother me.
But how would you feel if you had one of the kids who had been 'quiet & good'? Would you call it unfair, would it bother you, or would you just think 'no harm done'?
Since this is a parenting forum, I think sometimes the best way to think of it is when your children or child gets the brunt end of a parents rough day/bad mood. If there are more than 1 in the family, the times when all the children get a consequence due to 1 again, due to parents' frustration/overtired/annoyed/sick..I mean the list can go on & we have all been guilty of it. If this is habitual in nature w/ the parents, there is a problem. But it happens at least once where all the children get a consequence due to the behavior of one or a child gets unnecessarily snipped at.
As from the teaching perspective, same thing. Especially for subs where kids know they can walk all over that person. And dependant on the day, the AP could just be done w/ it all. Is it right? Nope. But it happens. And if one's child was doing the right thing & got caught in the crossfire, it is a great life lesson. If not, again, a great life lesson.
Sometimes it helps to think as a parent if you had 20 or more kids in one room for a hour & they knew you were not their parent/didn't care if you were their parent/just wanted to make the day rough for the fun of it/just trying to make the day ok for the sub...20+ kids (especially middle/high schoolers) can be a bear & hopefully the AP was just having a rough day. Not right what he did, but also not on the edge of child abuse or permanently scarring the studnents.
I remember clear as day the very first time I subbed. It was a middle school & a student threw a chair out the window, walked up to me & said "What the f you going to do about me?" About 75% of the class laughed/fell on the ground laughing, etc & a few sat there looking at me. I called the principal. I didn't know what to do. I don't know exactly what happened to the boy, but he was removed from the class for that period. I just gave the rest of the class the assigned work & listened to them giggle & whisper. I learned a lot from subbing.
If this was a habitual practice w/ the AP, then that is definitely wrong & quite unfair. Mass punishment is counterproductive in the education system. IMO, mass punishment across the border is counterproductive.
My kids' teachers won't generally do this, but it happens at the school lunchroom. If a few of the kids are running around and talking too loud all of the kids assigned to that lunchroom period are given "silent lunch" the following day. They aren't allowed to speak at all during lunch and can only leave their seats to put their trays away.
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