Have a newborn FMLA is up, and wife will have to go back to work (university, sister)
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That's right. They chose their kids instead of a career. They have chosen one over the other instead of both and that speaks volumes about their dedication to their careers. I believe that's all the op is saying. The choice to quit your career when you have kids means you are not as dedicated to your career or not as capable fo juggling career and kids as the person who chooses to keep their career after having kids. There is an innate difference in people who make these two choices.
If I were a hiring manager and I had a choice between a mom who had worked while her kids were young and one who quit her job, I'd take the one who worked. Why? Because she's a proven commodity. I know she can do two things at once. I know she doesn't take the easy way out. I know she doesn't quit when things get tough. And she, likely, has recent job skills.
That was my point. I did awhile back work in HR and to be honest I wasn't crazy about hiring women who took off years to be a stay at home mom because the skills were often outdated, not to mention many of them showed me they truly couldn't handle both so I didn't want to take a chance with them. Yes that is unpc to say but it is a fact. The truth is I know many women who had powerful careers to become stay at home moms and NONE were able to re enter the workforce in that same capacity. Some in fact ended up in jobs like retail and fast food. A friend of mine now regrets giving up her career because she can't find jobs.
To you long leaves are 6 months. And let's get real, you left a dying American industry that was sorely lacking in innovation. I know what I see in R&D today at a successful co, in a successful hub and like other tech co's (google, etc), talent is prized over bodies. Bodies end up washed up. We're in the worst recession we've ever had and the people I see getting hired are those with relevant experience, intelligence, and drive and the SAH status has not mattered. OTOH, bodies who have been in the market the last 10 years doing the same garbage day in and day out have been getting left behind. Worker bees can really dumb themselves down and that matters in today's market.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
What time frame is the "heart of the bailout crisis?". You're talking about a short time frame there. I had a 20+ year career in engineering. I saw much more than just the crisis. I also saw the high flying 90's when workers were in short supply and companies were bending over backwards to keep good employees. Guess what I didn't see? SHAM being hired other than for any kind of serious position.
My SIL went to school to be an opthamologist assistant then decided to SAH. When she reenetered the work force the only thing she could get was a receptionist position. She never has worked her way back to being an assistant and she RTW during the 90's when employees were hard to find. She was a MSAHM but she'll tell you today that she wishes she'd never SAH because the price was too high. She thought she'd just jump right back in where she left off but that didn't happen.
Internally, I saw women derailed from management track positions because they decided to take long leaves. Sure, the company gave them a job when they came back but it didn't have the same upward potential.
Reality is, employers want employees with relevent, recent job skills and who they know will be there. Quitting your job when you have kids puts a big question mark on your ability to handle both kids and a job and it's assumed you have no dedication to your career (which begs the question "why did you choose it?"). Do you really think there are no repercussions to quitting your chosen career and taking years off? You're dreaming.
Before I graduated from college, all of the female engineering students had to attend a seminar that dealt with this. We were warned of the unforgiving nature of industry to taking time off to stay home. We were told that if we chose to SAH we should use the time to get an advanced degree and time our RTW with finishing that degree. Industry will forgive time off if it's used to improve your skills/further your eduction but not to SAH with the kids.
To you long leaves are 6 months. And let's get real, you left a dying American industry that was sorely lacking in innovation. I know what I see in R&D today at a successful co, in a successful hub and like other tech co's (google, etc), talent is prized over bodies. Bodies end up washed up. We're in the worst recession we've ever had and the people I see getting hired are those with relevant experience, intelligence, and drive and the SAH status has not mattered. OTOH, bodies who have been in the market the last 10 years doing the same garbage day in and day out have been getting left behind. Worker bees can really dumb themselves down and that matters in today's market.
Funny you should mention R&D...I started in R&D. There I found the company went to great lengths to get employees to stay working after they had kids because they did not want talent walking out the door and skills getting stale. They encouraged job sharing as a way to keep people on the job. They discouraged long leaves. The attitude seemed to be the sooner you're back to work the sooner we know we're not losing you and the sooner we can use your talent.
Um, do tell how the SAHM has relevent recent experience? I know people who have been out of work, or out of their field for less time than many moms SAH because of the recession who cannot buy an interview because they do not have recent enough experience. So how are the SAHM's keeping their skills fresh these days?
I'm working on trying to get back into engineering after switching to teaching myself and having the same issue. I have great experience but it's not recent enough. If I take the dates off of my resume, I get calls. Then I'm told my experience isn't recent enough when they see the dates (I've been teaching for 5 years so I'm way off here.) Most companies want experience within the last year maybe two. Any more than that and they'd rather hire a new grad. They figure they're going to have to train so they might as well get youthful energy out of the deal.
Funny you should mention R&D...I started in R&D. There I found the company went to great lengths to get employees to stay working after they had kids because they did not want talent walking out the door and skills getting stale. They encouraged job sharing as a way to keep people on the job. They discouraged long leaves. The attitude seemed to be the sooner you're back to work the sooner we know we're not losing you and the sooner we can use your talent.
Um, do tell how the SAHM has relevent recent experience? I know people who have been out of work, or out of their field for less time than many moms SAH because of the recession who cannot buy an interview because they do not have recent enough experience. So how are the SAHM's keeping their skills fresh these days?
I was out of the work force for several years to home school the kids. I am in software. My skills WEREN'T "fresh". But with a kick ass track record and references that can't be beat, not having the most recent language just is not important because you have demonstrated the ability to solve problems and get stuff done.
A company without a work / life balance plan is a short sighted sweatshop as far as I am concerned. You would not catch me dead working in a place like that.
Most companies want experience within the last year maybe two. Any more than that and they'd rather hire a new grad. They figure they're going to have to train so they might as well get youthful energy out of the deal.
I think you are pulling this crap wholesale out of your rear end wholesale. There is so much more to the hiring decision than you put forth, you sound like a fool.
Funny you should mention R&D...I started in R&D. There I found the company went to great lengths to get employees to stay working after they had kids because they did not want talent walking out the door and skills getting stale. They encouraged job sharing as a way to keep people on the job. They discouraged long leaves. The attitude seemed to be the sooner you're back to work the sooner we know we're not losing you and the sooner we can use your talent.
That's still very much the case. Successful co's offer superior benefits to keep their talent.
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Um, do tell how the SAHM has relevent recent experience? I know people who have been out of work, or out of their field for less time than many moms SAH because of the recession who cannot buy an interview because they do not have recent enough experience. So how are the SAHM's keeping their skills fresh these days?
I already mentioned the two SAHPs I know. He's simply an excellent organic chemist and his years out of the work force did not matter. He left and he came back. And now that he's working he simply kicks ass. The woman is the same. She was out for a year and a half, and now she's back earning in the low 6 figures for working three days a week. And finally, as I have already stated, I interview frequently. When a professional in my field commits that's that. I'm not worried about attrition. I care about how fast you can learn, how quick you pick up new information and your ability to apply it-whether you have direct experience or not. That's what matters, not that you sat in the same seat for 10 years. I've been burned by people like that and have learned the hard way.
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I'm working on trying to get back into engineering after switching to teaching myself and having the same issue. I have great experience but it's not recent enough. If I take the dates off of my resume, I get calls. Then I'm told my experience isn't recent enough when they see the dates (I've been teaching for 5 years so I'm way off here.) Most companies want experience within the last year maybe two. Any more than that and they'd rather hire a new grad. They figure they're going to have to train so they might as well get youthful energy out of the deal.
For someone your age you will face more obstacles. You do have to be fresh, energetic, and appealing. And I'm not saying that too ling a time out isn't going to affect people. I just don't think you are as in touch as you think you are.
Actually, I would. With enough money, I could buy the right to teach the way I think teaching should be done. I would, however, hire myself an assistant. I'm not a martyr.
It's one thing to quit because you will never need to work again. You're free to do what you want. It's another to quit because you can't juggle work and family. you're high risk when you RTW because no one knows if you can even handle both plus your skills are stale. Someone who chooses to take time off, literally, chooses to let their skills go stale. What does that say to an employer? Why would anyone take a chance on you when you're unproven and they'd have to retrain you when they can get a new grad who's chomping at the bit and doesn't have the distraction of family and train them? In 20 years in industry, I've seen zero ex SAHM's hired for meaningful positions. They were hired as receptionists and such but that was it.
And besides, you don't want to be a rehire with young kids. The best assignments go to those with more seniority, ditto the best shifts and hours and you haven't accrued any vacation time yet. When my kids were little, I had 6 weeks vacation and I used half of it to cover sick child care (they pick up every little bug in day care). When you're a new hire, you may not have any vacation time your first year.
Let's get something straight. Quitting work to stay home with your kids does not mean you can't handle both. It could mean you can't be the mom you want to be with the career you have. It could mean your husband makes bank, and you can't justify putting the kid in daycare because you don't need the money. It could mean you make so little at your job, that paying for day care would cost that much or more. There are many reasons a parent might choose to quit their job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
What time frame is the "heart of the bailout crisis?". You're talking about a short time frame there. I had a 20+ year career in engineering. I saw much more than just the crisis. I also saw the high flying 90's when workers were in short supply and companies were bending over backwards to keep good employees. Guess what I didn't see? SHAM being hired other than for trivial positions.
My SIL went to school to be an opthamologist assistant then decided to SAH. When she reenetered the work force the only thing she could get was a receptionist position. She never has worked her way back to being an assistant and she RTW during the 90's when employees were hard to find. She was a MSAHM but she'll tell you today that she wishes she'd never SAH because the price was too high. She thought she'd just jump right back in where she left off but that didn't happen.
Internally, I saw women derailed from management track positions because they decided to take long leaves. Sure, the company gave them a job when they came back but it didn't have the same upward potential.
Reality is, employers want employees with relevent, recent job skills and who they know will be there. Quitting your job when you have kids puts a big question mark on your ability to handle both kids and a job and it's assumed you have no dedication to your career (which begs the question "why did you choose it?"). Do you really think there are no repercussions to quitting your chosen career and taking years off? You're dreaming.
Before I graduated from college, all of the female engineering students had to attend a seminar that dealt with this. We were warned of the unforgiving nature of industry to taking time off to stay home. We were told that if we chose to SAH we should use the time to get an advanced degree and time our RTW with finishing that degree. Industry will forgive time off if it's used to improve your skills/further your eduction but not to SAH with the kids. You, simply, cannot have your cake and eat it too. Our choices come with price tags. You should know what the price is before you make the choice. Just ask my SIL. She never realized she pay a lifetime penalty on earning potential for that choice. She thought she was just giving up her income for those years. Reality is, she gave up a lot more than that.
Maybe in your industry, but not in all industries. Some career fields are more conducive to parenting than others.
Again, there is a difference between being able to handle both, and all of the other reasons I listed above.
Let's get something straight. Quitting work to stay home with your kids does not mean you can't handle both. It could mean you can't be the mom you want to be with the career you have. It could mean your husband makes bank, and you can't justify putting the kid in daycare because you don't need the money. It could mean you make so little at your job, that paying for day care would cost that much or more. There are many reasons a parent might choose to quit their job.
Maybe in your industry, but not in all industries. Some career fields are more conducive to parenting than others.
Again, there is a difference between being able to handle both, and all of the other reasons I listed above.
I've seen it more than just in my industry. My sister and SIL aren't in automotive and neither of them was able to make a reentry into their original careers. It seems a common theme no matter the industry. My mentor teacher went into teaching after SAH because she could not get a job as a chemist again. Everywhere I look I see former SAHM's who haven't been able to get a foot back in the door some who can't find a job at all. I see many going back to school to get new degrees to give themselves an edge. This would be my recommendation for a SAH who wanted to RTW. It's what the university told us to do when we graduated.
If you quit your job, you, certainly, do not demonstrate that you can handle both family and a job. There is no reason for anyone looking in from the outside to assume you can because you've never done it. Whether or not you can is yet to be proved. Employers may see that as not worth the risk. They're going to ask what you're going to do when they ask you to work late, travel for a meeting, work weekends...etc, etc, etc...are you someone they can count on or will the job last only as long as it's convenient for you?
Let's get something straight. Quitting work to stay home with your kids does not mean you can't handle both. It could mean you can't be the mom you want to be with the career you have. It could mean your husband makes bank, and you can't justify putting the kid in daycare because you don't need the money. It could mean you make so little at your job, that paying for day care would cost that much or more. There are many reasons a parent might choose to quit their job.
It's quite clear the vast majority who are working cannot do both, that's why they hire other people to do it for them. So, imo, it's just more malarkey. I cannot be in two places at once, so I will have my kid with someone a few afternoons during the week. Sucks, but that's how it goes.
I've seen it more than just in my industry. My sister and SIL aren't in automotive and neither of them was able to make a reentry into their original careers. It seems a common theme no matter the industry. My mentor teacher went into teaching after SAH because she could not get a job as a chemist again. Everywhere I look I see former SAHM's who haven't been able to get a foot back in the door some who can't find a job at all. I see many going back to school to get new degrees to give themselves an edge. This would be my recommendation for a SAH who wanted to RTW. It's what the university told us to do when we graduated.
If you quit your job, you, certainly, do not demonstrate that you can handle both family and a job. There is no reason for anyone looking in from the outside to assume you can because you've never done it.
One thing you fail to realize is that there are more variables at play than the one you are latching onto. Your location, how long you have been out, what you actually accomplished while you were working, and if your skill set is actually valued to just name a few.
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Our choices come with price tags. You should know what the price is before you make the choice. Just ask my SIL. She never realized she pay a lifetime penalty on earning potential for that choice. She thought she was just giving up her income for those years. Reality is, she gave up a lot more than that.
