Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wow, thanks for all the great replies. I really didn't expect to get that much of a response but I appreciate it. Unfortunately, there are so many there is no way to respond to all of you. I did read them all, though.
Just to give an update: I saw the first 5 or 6 responses before I left work last night and they were very helpful. I resolved that I would have a sit down with my daughter when I got home and apologize for my over-reaction.
I know some of you said I don't have anything to apologize for. But I feel like I really lost my cool in a way that was way over-the-top and did not set a good example for my kids. Certainly when I was a kid I had much stricter parents than my wife and I are, and I got yelled at many times, but in this case I feel I showed a lack of self-control that my parents never had even when they were very angry. I do feel that my wife and I need to be stricter with our kids and they need to respect our authority more. But my wife and I need to have some discussions about how to get to that point. It is not going to happen over night, though.
In any case, when I got home I still wasn't sure what I was going to say, so I spent some time thinking about it before going upstairs to talk to her. But before I could, my daughter came down and offered an apology first. It wasn't a particularly good apology. It was very angry, in fact. It went something like this: "Do you want to hear something? I'm sorry. That's called an apology. Something you don't know anything about because you can never admit you ever do anything wrong." She was fighting back tears and her lower lip was quivering the whole time so I know it was very difficult for her. I began to tell her that that is not true and I was just about to go upstairs and apologize for my overreaction. But she was in no mood and turned away and went back upstairs. A few minutes later, I went into her room and told her that I accepted her apology and I was really sorry for the way I overreacted and that it was not appropriate and I thought it was very big of her to apologize the way she did. She was still upset and just said 'Okay'. I left it at that and left the room and gave her space for the rest of the night so everybody's hurt feelings would have time to heal over. As it turned out, very early this morning I was scheduled to drop her off at the train station for a multi-day field trip. At the train station she was back to herself, happy and coming back to give me hugs three times before finally getting on the train.
Okay, I have a feeling some might say that I'm a pushover to accept that apology. But as I said in my original post, both my daughters are generally good, sweet, compassionate kids. This outburst was very out of character for her. I think we both pushed each others buttons that night and we both realized it. What I mostly wanted was for her to know that what she said was unacceptable and there had to be consequences. Though the apology wasn't perfect it was also a first-time offense and I know I played my part as well. I basically felt playing a hard-ass at this point wouldn't serve any purpose. I know it was very difficult for her to do and knowing my daughter as I do, I know that even though it was angry it was also sincere.
I appreciate all the suggestions that people offered regarding homework. Many great ideas there. Will definitely try to use them to come up w/ a better system than what we've been doing.
Several of you mentioned the possibility of ADD/ADHD. I don't think it's that. She's always been a good student before. One poster asked, "Is it that that homework just isn't fun?". I think it's that more than anything. She gets anxious about life sometimes. She's in 8th grade and she sometimes has anxiety about whether she's going to be able to find a job when she's an adult. It's almost like she's worried about growing up and it's happening too fast. She wishes she could still just spend her time just doing all fun things like it was just a couple of years ago. We have her in counseling for her anxiety and it seems to be helping some. Like many of you suggested, I think we need to come up with a plan that works for her and us and then implement it.
Thanks again for all the replies. You all were very, very helpful. You've given me a lot to think about.
Bill
Wow, what a great kid. She sure must have been raised right. A spontaneous apology from a teenager, even a "pissy" one, is really meaningful. And it is pretty cool that she felt comfortable, even after the blow up, to try to approach you with what she needed. The bodes extremely well for the teen years, so another +1 for Dad (and Mom).
Good luck with the homework strategies. If you guys get very stuck, and it is creating grief, there is nothing wrong with getting someone outside the house to help her develop some plans and tricks for studying/homework. Ask anyone who has taught a teenager to drive, just because we CAN teach them to drive, sometimes they learn it better (with less tears) from someone else. Her guidance counselor may know some older teens who can act as a mentor/study coach (a program we have at my school) or there are even professionals who specialize in teaching kids to get organized and homework strategies.
Look, there's a common theme here: Her inability to maintain focus for the amount of time necessary to complete an assignment. Has this been an ongoing issue that she's been able to skate on, or is this a sudden occurrence? If it's been an on-going issue and it's just now coming to a head, an evaluation for ADD might be in order. If it's new, then some sleuthing is needed -- why is she so stressed that she can't focus? Is it possible that she could be reacting to some sort of sexual assault or bullying? Are her friends motivated and good students? Heck, is it just that she might need glasses?
At 13, she really needs to develop some good study and organization skills before she hits high school, or it's going to be a rough ride.
First of all, no phone until her homework is done. When she gets home, the phone gets turned off, put in a neutral place (a basket in the kitchen, for example), and she starts on her homework. She can have her phone back after it's done, assuming there's time between homework and bedtime. The phone is a HUGE distraction.
Secondly, Dad, you need to back off a little bit. I strongly recommend the book "Parenting with Love and Logic" by Foster Cline and Jim Fay. It takes you out of the "punishment" mindset and instead introduces consequences, and puts responsibility for a child's actions where they belong: On the child. In your daughter's case, once you have eliminated possible adverse reasons for her response to the homework dilemma (ADD, glasses, distractions, bullying, etc.), then the only thing left is to put her in charge of her own work. That means sitting down with her, calmly setting expectations and engaging her in those expectations, and agreeing in advance what the consequences will be if those expectations aren't met. That way, expectations are set, and she knows in advance what the consequences will be when those expectations are not met. A reasonable expectation might be "all homework completed prior to bedtime each night," or that a minimally acceptable grade is attained, depending on her abilities. House rules to support those expectations would be no phone (and perhaps no TV) until homework is completed. And that also means no Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat or whatever social media platform 13 year olds are migrating to these days. If she meets those expectations, then things will be just fine. If not, then the consequences mean that certain privileges will be suspended until she has met those expectations -- either phone, computer privileges, after-school activities, socializing (she may be overscheduled?), allowance, or even free weekends, that might need to be spent making up lost/forgotten homework. You are available for assistance, but you will no longer stand guard over her while she does her homework. And it's all calm and cut-and-dried -- these are the expectations she has agreed to. No arguments, no shouting, etc.
Consider getting her a coach/tutor who can help her get organized for a couple of weeks -- taking yourself out of the equation would be a good break for both of you.
It's also useful to discuss long-term goals: Is she headed for college? Does she have a clue what college she wants to attend? What are their admission standards? The clock starts ticking when she hits 9th grade. Also, what are your expectations for her grades in order to obtain her driver's license? (A powerful consequence :-)
That's just on the grades/homework side. The obscene swearing and screaming: It's hard to keep your cool when that happens -- because, let's face it, this is your baby and she's hurt your feelings and left you frustrated and angry when all you were trying to do was to HELP her, the ungrateful brat! That kind of swearing and disrespect needs to be dealt with swiftly. If it were my child, that phone would have disappeared for a month and she'd be grounded for that entire time, too. I don't care if they are 13 or 35, no child of mine tells me "f**k you." You provide a home, food, clothing, education, and I'm sure a host of other extras out of love and affection, and deserve respect and an apology.
And your wife needs to be backing you up on this. The fact that she's not is mindblowing.
PS: Never on God's green earth would I pay for grades. Never, ever NEVER. To me, that externalizes the rewards for something that should be an internal reward for working towards and achieving a goal. Not every goal is external. In school, your reward is a grade. That is appropriate. In the work world, your reward is a salary, a bonus or a commission.
My son once floated the idea of paying for grades. I floating the idea right back to him that perhaps he should pay me for cooking him dinner. "But you're supposed to, you're a parent . . . " he floundered. "Well, you're supposed to make good grades, too -- you're the student, that's you're ONLY job!" Several of his friends at his private high school got ridiculous payments for grades -- one kid got $100 for every A. $600 for straight A's? Completely nuts.
"tells me she hates me, and if she ever said she loved me, she was lying"
not making light of your situation, but if you look at that statement objectively its pretty funny.
Lots of kids say the first part. Never heard the second twist covering all bases of ever having loved you. I know it hurt you in the moment, but try to get a laugh out of her creativity.
She's a clever little minx.
Clearly smart enough to solve her own homework problem.
You've gotten a lot of good advice. If it were me, I would apologize, give her a consequence for swearing at me and then matter of factly say something like clearly what we've been doing with your homework is not working. So, I'm going to leave it up to you to solve and if you need help let me know. Then I would step back for 2-3 weeks and see what happens. If I wanted to lighten the situation, I might find a pic of her cuddled in your arms, tell her she hurt your feelings and say I don't think you were lying when you were loving me here. I would leave it up to her to apologize or not.
Only do that if you don't mind her breaking down and crying in your arms.
I haven't read more than the first few posts but I am the mother to two 13 year olds and I can tell you it isn't easy.
Why does any 13 year old need a phone? Our girls don't have them and won't for some time and if they did, they certainly would not have them during homework time and certainly not after swearing at you. TAKE THE PHONE AWAY at least for a week or two.
Have her do her homework in the family room or where she can ask for help if she needs it and where she knows she can't get away with distractions. if you watch TV in that room then get TV Ears like we use so nobody can hear the TV except the one with the TV Ears.
One of the first things I would do is ask for a meeting with her teachers. They might have some insight on how you can help and be able to tell you what she is or isn't doing during class.
One of our girls was way rude and nasty when I told her she had gone over her time limit on the laptop. I VERY STRONGLY told her it was time to shut it down and help me with supper. She got in a huff, slammed the laptop down and screamed "I hate you!"
I very calmly told her since she hated me she didn't need the computer we bought for her and she surely would hate the supper I was fixing and she could go to her room without supper.
She was incredulous but stormed away and wailed for a while in her room. Her daddy was furious to learn she had slammed the computer down and we decided together to take it away for 1 week and after she got it back she had to sign it out along with the timer. They have never been allowed any electronics in their room so it wasn't a problem to have her at the breakfast bar on the computer.
I might be wrong but I think you owe her an apology only for banging and screaming but not for being impatient. She was avoiding doing her homework and anybody would be impatient. She probably could benefit from a tutor or extra help after school.
Once when my now grown son was about that age he and his father got into it in the kitchen and he screamed "I hate you". I pushed him up against the cabinets and told him "Well you better damn well learn how to fake it cause as long as you are living under this roof you will show respect to your father and me too". I honestly don't remember one more minute of teenage nastiness from him. We were talking about this over Christmas and he said he really learned how a couple should back each other up when dealing with nasty kids.
PS: Never on God's green earth would I pay for grades. Never, ever NEVER. To me, that externalizes the rewards for something that should be an internal reward for working towards and achieving a goal. Not every goal is external. In school, your reward is a grade. That is appropriate. In the work world, your reward is a salary, a bonus or a commission.
My son once floated the idea of paying for grades. I floating the idea right back to him that perhaps he should pay me for cooking him dinner. "But you're supposed to, you're a parent . . . " he floundered. "Well, you're supposed to make good grades, too -- you're the student, that's you're ONLY job!" Several of his friends at his private high school got ridiculous payments for grades -- one kid got $100 for every A. $600 for straight A's? Completely nuts.
I actually tell my kids as we all head off to work or school, we are ALL heading off to our jobs. School is their job right now, and gramp's money they earn for grades is a great bonus to help them stay motivated and on task. The older one is saving it up for a car so he can work in the summers. There has been no loss of internal motivation when my kids are paid for grades, and it makes the often heavy, tedious burden of school seem lighter and more fun for them. If they make good grades, and EARN the reward, then they've learned they can set goals, set sub goals to achieve those goals, and through persistence, dedication, and perseverance meet those goals and see a nice reward. The money is just the icing on the cake for a job well done, and it makes school more fun.
BTW, my 15 year old practically begged me to put a time management plan into place after his first semester of high school. He literally said, " Please help me!!!! I can't get it together!!" Gramps came up with the money system to help out. He is thriving now, and thrilled to be seeing solid results for the first time in high school. He thought he could have had ADD, but I knew it was not that and just weak muscles, so to speak, in the area of goal setting, time management, study strategies, and perseverance. His problem is that he is a super social kid who was overdoing it with friends, get togethers, etc, and he couldn't say no to all the invites. I didn't need my parents to do anything like this system I've set up for him. I just did it on my own after I watched 'Where Theres a Will There's An A." That program changed my life. He needs about 3-6 months or so with the structure set up for him (1 hour study, 30 minutes exercise, 1 hour study, 15 min sit ups push ups) to show himself that he CAN set and achieve goals. It's like having a personal trainer for awhile, but eventually you no longer need them. That's the plan to strengthen those weak areas kind of like study skills boot camp for a few months. He easily glided by in middle school, but high school is much harder for him and most of his friends, and they really have to work for it now which was a shock to them. The kid got in my car this week absolutely beaming after school and rattled off a list of things he had accomplished that day-talked to teachers about sitting in the front of the class, took a retest and did well on it, got extra math help and understands it now, etc. He then was so happy with himself and said, "I feel so good about my day!" I can see the change happening before my eyes that he is gaining a greater sense of personal responsibility, motivation, and success and losing the helplessness and despair that he had been feeling surrounding school.
A kid tells their parent they hate them. So what. It's not a big deal. I don't know why people get their panties in a bunch over it. My parents used to tell "me so what, it doesn't matter, you're still going to do what I told you to do." That's when I realized I lost any power I mistakenly believed I had.
A kid tells their parent they hate them. So what. It's not a big deal. I don't know why people get their panties in a bunch over it. My parents used to tell "me so what, it doesn't matter, you're still going to do what I told you to do." That's when I realized I lost any power I mistakenly believed I had.
To a degree I agree but if it is accompanied by swearing, banging on a computer, throwing something or attempting some sort of physical altercation (which is what almost happened in the case of my son an dhis father) it should be nipped in the bud and dealt with pronto.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
