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She's just too negative too much of the time, and anymore even if she only calls once a month I don't want to even talk that much. The really ironic thing--many years ago when we were 11 and 13 or so she and my father would get in really nasty fights to the degree that she'd hide his prescription glasses so he couldn't leave and once even burned his arm purposely with an iron, and when his sister (my aunt) came over once simply to state that it wasn't healthy fighting so viciously in front of impressionable children, my mother threw the king of all fits (even ripping the phone out of the wall) scolding her to mind her own business.
I apologize for what I said before in the thread about your vacation: "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree". I have no trouble believing that you are not vicious and physically abusive to your family, while your mother was and is.
But can't you see what you're saying here? It's not "ironic", it's incredibly sad. No children should ever have to go through that. You still can't wrap your mind around the things your mother did, can you? It's still all bottled up inside. No one writes as passionately as you do without an immense driving force.
Growing up in fear and insecurity is hell. Some people who were raised in a volatile environment become adults for whom everything has to be absolutely under their control. Then that causes problems as well, because few people will tolerate a controlling person. Others self-destruct.
I'm not an expert on personality disorders so I can't slap a label on your mother. But I think you and your family would benefit from going No Contact with her.
To me, most of this problem is an easy fix. DON'T TELL YOUR MOTHER ABOUT IMPENDING VACATIONS! Unless you want her along, don't tell reveal your plans in the first place! Your sister doesn't need to know, either. It's your life and you don't need to self-sabotage it by broadcasting everything.
My family is all in the next state, which I visit often for many reasons, and I seldom mix vacations with family visits. Therefore, they never know when I'm in close enough vicinity to them - if they did, their feelings would get hurt, but I take full vacations and don't want the time restraints. And when I do visit them I book fewer days and make many silent prayers that all goes well. I'm not too shy to tell them if they say something unacceptable.
Once long ago I had a bad visit where Mom and other family threw one criticism at me after another the whole time I was there, and finally I told my mother that I didn't come down to get showered with insults and that I was disgusted with all of them. I didn't go home again for several years.
I can't pretend to have an inkling of your family dynamics but I have to ask .. if you were on the outside, looking on at a similar situation to the one you describe, what would you think and how would you react/act?
I recall so well that my father and I were always at odds when I was a teenager .. and I thought his method of childrearing (particularly when it came to me) was just wrong, wrong, wrong. He was, to my mind overbearing, loud and unreasonable in his expectations of how I should act and interact with just about everything and everyone in the world. He 'controlled' rather than 'befriended' me. I left the 'nest' as early as was legally feasible. And then I made many mistakes based on how 'I' thought I should handle life and marriage and children. Ah .. if I had it all to do over again ...
I married. I had kids and was determined to raise them differently. I tried to do just that but quickly realized that my parents were often far more right then I previously realized. I began to grow up and realize that a) my dad and mom did the very best they knew how to raise me and my siblings - and their experiences as children had a great influence on how they saw and performed that function and b) they were not so very wrong in most cases about just about everything in life at that time (you know .. the old saying .. when I was a teenager I was sure my parents knew nothing .. and when I was in my 20s - now 30s I suppose - I wondered how they learned so much so fast). I quickly forgave them .. and began to understand their viewpoints much better. I did do it 'my way' but in the end it was a slightly modified version of their way - because .. I figured that despite my own flaws I didn't turn out half badly - and that they had a lot to do with that! Our relationship strengthened as a result - and things got much better.
My father was always critical (and I felt it was just of 'me', 'me', 'me' of course) ... but I found that once I relaxed he was much less so - or at least he directed it elsewhere - more on the vagaries of society in general - which was fine. We all learned from that experience - and moved on to develop better relationships with each other over time. And I was so glad we did that because the day came when our roles were reversed and I had to care for him when he was elderly, and sometimes crankier than heck when in pain.
We often view our kids as an outward expression of ourselves - and just as we take pride in them because when they are behaving as we feel they should, we are distressed when they seem to have minds of their own and don't follow our 'rules' or behave as we would behave. But, be that as it may (because it is often governed more by how we personally want society at large to view US), we have to learn to change over time when the kids become their own people. Not all of them will turn out to be models of good citizenry or exactly as we wanted .. perhaps as little clones of us to continue to put good vibes about US out into the world (i.e. my kid is a Rhodes scholar, my kid got 87 degrees and is making a fortune, my (now adult) child did x, y or z .. those desires we may have when we mention them in the Christmas letters may not be so much about them as they are about ourselves and how we want to be seen by the world). Your mother may not yet be able to let you be who you are .. just as you don't seem able to let her be who she is.
Understanding and compassion can go a long way to smoothing some of these poor dynamics over time. Perhaps every time your mother begins to criticize you, etc. you could ask her how SHE is doing? Maybe she just needs to feel that you still care? Not excusing her behaviour but, busy and stressed out as you are, if you at least try that, maybe you can better isolate the problem?
As a parent, how will you be when your own children leave the nest and go on to pursue their own lives? How will YOU act as a grandparent? What if your daughter and you don't get along well then .. for whatever the reason .. but you want to see your grandchildren? What if you never quite get over not being able to control your own kids behaviour when they become adults? What if she is just lonely and feels she now has little purpose in her life now you are all gone and raising your own families? What will happen when your mother cannot care for herself and you might need to take on a greater role in that arena? How will you manage the stress and dynamics between you both then? How will you feel when your kids move away and have their own kids and own lives and contact you rarely as a result of their busy lives while you have little perhaps to occupy yours?
My grandparents were special in my life because they let me have things my parents wouldn't .. they were more hands off when it came to discipline (though they DID talk to me quite sternly on occasion when I went really astray - as I think they should have - and even did that in front of my parents as I recall. No idea whether there were words about that in private later between my parents and my grandparents but frankly, I don't think so). I think they all realized that they were different people, in different situations, and saw things differently. I was taught to respect my grandparents as much as my parents. In any event, my life would have been much less rich if my grandparents, at least one set because I saw them far more frequently than I did the other, had not been in it .. so I would caution you to remember that perhaps your children don't quite see things as you do here.
That said, I really think this may be more about the fact that you and your mother may be just picking up at the 'teenage' angst stage when you see each other because it is such an ingrained dynamic for the both of you. It is probably about you and her more than about your kids and how you raise them. Whether you admit it or not, you may be very much alike .. that was the case with me and my father.
Neither of you may have moved on properly from that long ago 'stage' in life and both of you could be still fighting for 'control'. Luckily, if you can't remedy that, and you feel it is damaging your own family/kids, you can ensure your mother doesn't do this 365 days a year - at least for now since she doesn't live with you or even next door. Thank goodness. Take at least SOME vacations without her. Limit your discussions on the phone when they venture into the realm of childrearing or if she gets too critical - but also be aware that you know as little about HER life now as she knows about yours. In essence, you are strangers .. and must build a new relationship. But, you already have 'control' over your own life - so you can act as you see fit in this or any other situation ... and you will be responsible for the results of your actions .. so all is well.
No matter how you decide to handle this situation (and I can see it is a very stressful one for you - I am sorry about that - and parent-child relationships can be difficult at times) .. please just consider what you want for the long haul, not just for now if you decide to cut her off completely, and isolate her from your children, her grandchildren. It could be you do need to do that if it is damaging your kids or your relationship with your spouse, but, I would not give up the ship just yet.
Just things to think about. I am a mother. My kids left long ago. I am thousands of miles away from all of them - they are scattered in different directions. My spouse died several years ago, as did my father (mom was gone in the 80s). I live in a community that is relatively isolated - just me and my elderly dog. I have no help to do anything. I would give anything for grandchildren but I have none .. since my two boys are in their 40s and have not married and my daughter who is her 30s is just beginning to grow up and be independent and has no one on the horizon .. who knows if I ever will. I try hard not to be the overbearing mother who asks constantly if any of them is ever going to get married and have kids - they are their own people and if I mention that at all it is once a decade - an acceptable rate I think. The one thing in life that I do not regret though is that my father and I spent enough time together in his last years that I feel at peace now about our relationship. I am so glad I didn't ever completely cut him off at some point because we were at odds - and even as an adult, we often were too. He actually cut ME off for 5 years but I never gave up trying to get him to speak to me again. I am proud of that and thankful.
But, we can choose our friends .. not our families. And you have your own life to live .. so live it. Good luck with this situation and all the others that will arise in your lifetime.
I hate to repeat myself but you have some MAJOR anger issues with your mom (and maybe she deserves them). But you don't deserve to feel so angry all the time. Get some therapy and work on where you want to go with the relationship.
Yes I've been to therapy before for other reasons, might be a good time to go back.
I appreciate the advice and feedback, etc, more to the subject of the title of the post, what is the etiquette like for your close friends and family with criticism or advice that's unsolicited but is meant well in a helpful way vs being ugly and preachy etc? I appreciate some helpful tips from fellow parents is OK so long as it's respectful and not preachy? If someone is ugly frequently, do you just "fake listen" and tune it out or do you ask that they stop?
Yes I've been to therapy before for other reasons, might be a good time to go back.
I appreciate the advice and feedback, etc, more to the subject of the title of the post, what is the etiquette like for your close friends and family with criticism or advice that's unsolicited but is meant well in a helpful way vs being ugly and preachy etc? I appreciate some helpful tips from fellow parents is OK so long as it's respectful and not preachy? If someone is ugly frequently, do you just "fake listen" and tune it out or do you ask that they stop?
Our chlldren are in their late 20s & early 30s and not once in their entire childhood or when they were teenagers or college age has anyone (not grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/friends/neighbors/teachers) ever said anything about our child rearing in an ugly or preachy manner. Nope, not even one time.
I have to wonder if your children are actually as well mannered as you think that they are or perhaps your relatives & friends & neighbors are much bigger jerks than mine.
Our chlldren are in their late 20s & early 30s and not once in their entire childhood or when they were teenagers or college age has anyone (not grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/friends/neighbors/teachers) ever said anything about our child rearing in an ugly or preachy manner. Nope, not even one time.
I have to wonder if your children are actually as well mannered as you think that they are or perhaps your relatives & friends & neighbors are much bigger jerks than mine.
I don't know the OP, but yes, different folks relatives can be much bigger jerks than others. Often it's not logical, it doesn't make sense, but it's there. Have no idea what drives some of their comments toward their children/grandchildren.
'Mom, I am sorry but I don't have time to talk right now' (and give some plausible reason why not .. incoming call, dinner to make, have to run to the store .. anything that is not about anything that will inflame her or start up a new 'the kids/you should/should not' type conversation).
'Mom, yes, I know .. I will think about that but how are YOU doing?' (deflect! You could also just say, to keep peace in the family, you are right. That is her, not you ... what skin it is off your nose to let her 'win' once in a while? What will it change in your life? Then change the subject. Try to sound sincere - after all by the time you next talk or see each other, it will probably be forgotten. Maybe she will let whatever it is go if you do that. )
Be polite. Be respectful. Never lose YOUR cool. Let everything wash over you and go back to living your life the best way you know how.
Being tired, hungry, irritated, and maybe all at once would cause anyone to lash out. If my blood sugar gets too low, I cannot control my anger.
I hate this excuse so much when I get it from a certain member of my own family. If a person KNOWS their behavior is erratic when their blood sugar is off, then it's their own responsibility to manage their condition better, not let it routinely get out of whack and inflict the resulting meltdowns on other people. Blood glucose monitoring has never been simpler and quicker than it is now. It's barely more of an excuse, to my mind, than "I couldn't help it, I was drunk."
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