Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Subrogation. The insurance company is going to do everything it can to not have to pay for the claim.
Really. I have never had that experience. Taking a child to the ER for a broken arm or whatever, or myself for that matter, my medical insurance just pays for it. There has never been an investigation into how and where the injury occurred or if it were due to negligence.
Really. I have never had that experience. Taking a child to the ER for a broken arm or whatever, or myself for that matter, my medical insurance just pays for it. There has never been an investigation into how and where the injury occurred or if it were due to negligence.
You might not be aware of it. I've received forms in the past from the insurance company asking for more information about E.R. visits, making sure there isn't someone else who should be footing the bill.
You might not be aware of it. I've received forms in the past from the insurance company asking for more information about E.R. visits, making sure there isn't someone else who should be footing the bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
Daughter 2 fell down the steps at her grandparents' when she was 2 or so, knocked herself out. Went to ER, X-rays, etc.
Our insurance then went after my in-laws homeowner's for the cost.
I guess I'm not aware. I have never had this happen or heard of it happening. Learn something every day.
I see there are some side discussions here, but you can consider my matter closed. They had a great time, and the two high school age kids working the sign up booth for Midway Entertainment had no way of knowing I wasn't the parent of the kids
Who am I defrauding? I'm not taking any money from them. In fact, I'm paying them money, the full cost of their services.
But the main question I'm presenting here, is who would know, and why?
If anyone asks, they're my kids.
But no ones ever asked before.
So to sway my ultimate decision, I'm looking for: "Yes....you could get caught because......and here are the consequences if that happens. .."
Regardless of what you call it, you are potentially opening up yourself to legal liability should something go wrong. You might say that my sibling would never bring a lawsuit against me, but stranger things would have happened.
Still, in the grand scheme of things, there seems to be pretty low risk I'd wager.
So two things. First, I highly doubt that the form requires it to be signed by a court appointed guardian, it probably says legal guardian, which there is a very good argument that you are. You were placed in guardianship over their child. I think the waiver would be enforced for this reason. Second, you absolutely have apparent authority to sign on the parent's behalf, so I think the document could be enforced for this reason. But this is really all its about. If the kids are hurt, can the zoo or third-party contractor running the zip line hold the release valid to protect them. That is all this is about. In my opinion, it is not going to be a problem for them to do so. A far more interesting question is whether those waivers are worth anything, and that varies greatly by state and the language that they use.
For your purposes, just sign it. No criminal or civil liability will attach to you in the circumstances you describe.
I'd tend to agree. Legal guardian generally refers to someone who has been appointed to serve in a guardian role by a court or who otherwise has legal authority and duty to care for another. I'd put the OP in the latter case.
Thus, absent the document explicitly spelling out "court-appointed legal guardian," which I'd be shocked if it did, I think that the OP should be in the clear.
In theory you could be prosecuted for fraud, but in practice, it is a "civil" matter. You should be prepared to pay up to the out of pocket maximum on their health insurance.
Fraud requires deception for personal or financial gain. I don't think what OP is discussing would fall under criminal fraud (or civil) in any jurisdiction.
A trickier legal issue would be if the OP's sibling decided to sue OP for damages related to injury for misrepresentation that enabled the child(ren) to take part in an activity that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to if the OP didn't sign the form. I am not saying this is likely, but stranger things would have happened.
I think people have their real life way they act and their online persona for what they do and say for message boards and social media. I know people that are totally different than what they actually post on Facebook, so I'd be surprised if it didn't apply to people here.
I don't believe that almost everyone wouldn't do the same for a similar reason to what you said in another reply, this is a kids zip line, not an adult one. I'll be surprised if it's as high or as dangerous as an adult version.
Let's be real here, they don't do it the way they actually should where you would need to bring their legal, stamped birth certificate, the one needed to get a real ID in the US that also shows both parents names. Then they would want your photo ID but not any photo ID, you're US real ID where you had to show legal documents in order to get one.
In addition, yes, they would most certainly want identification for the kids which a lot of kids these days have from the school they go to that the school verified who the kids actually were, they would also have a current photo of the kid on it.
We can all assume that they are not requiring any of those things in order to qualify going on the kids zip line.
As I said in my other reply, we're not in the 80's any more. There are ways for your sibling to get the waiver printed so they can sign it to text it to you to bring.
I've been here 13 years, am still amazed how people focus on one thing, then most of the thread is followed by that one thing. In thirty something replies, I think 2 or 3 people offered a solution for Reggie to have his sibling email something to say he had permission to take the kids on the ride which would at least cover Reggie's butt if something did happened; so that the kids parents couldn't straight up sue Reggie.
In my opinion, having them actually sign it, then text it to Reggie would be the best. They could have actually mailed it back to Reggie already had they done that when the thread was first started.
The waiver would not hold up in court if the parents did sign it. There's a thread called Child dies on thrill ride in the current events section. A 6 year old girl died on a haunted mine drop thrill ride at an amusement park called Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park in CO. They have a waiver on their web site that a parent needs to sign, that absolves them of any accident causing injury or death on one of their rides.
Turns out, in this case, the employee didn't belt her in. He physically tested the belt too, which the girl was holding onto. We don't know if she had been on the ride before or not, they didn't live far from the park. I wondered if she purposely didn't say anything about the belt.
My grandson is 8, for the last few years he's been playing seat belt games with me. I expect him to belt up when we get in the car, I'll start pulling out, asking if he's belted. He says, well, it's giving me issues, telling me it's stuck or jammed some way. I have to stop the car, I see that there is no issue, it's really him not wanting to wear his seat belt while driving to my house a mile or so away. In his 8 year old mind, we drive down one street, turn, drive on the 2nd street, turn again, short drive before making a left, then another short drive, right turn onto my street. Like why would he need a seat belt on such a short drive? I guess he forgets that he and my daughter were in a bad wreck at that first turn. Someone ran a stop sign, her friends SUV was totaled. They were on a short drive that day too when they all almost got killed. Thankfully grandson a friends kid were in car seats still.
One of my first questions about this little girl besides wondering if she'd even been on it before, was who was on the ride with her? There is no way in hell that an adult would not belt my kid or my grand kids on for a dangerous ride like this.
Even if the employee did belt passengers in, there were articles where attorneys gave their opinion, the waiver wouldn't hold up in court, the one that Reggie is signing wouldn't hold up in court either but there may be a case against Reggie for whether he legally had the right to sign the waiver for his niece and nephew. That is why I would want my sibling to get the waiver printed, then at least text it to me; having staples scan into a PDF is what I'd also want, so that my sibling could at least email me the PDF, even though they texted the signed waiver to me.
Below is one reply in the thrill ride accident that links to the article saying how she died if anyone is interested. If you want to check out the thread, you can hit the arrow next to Suburban_Guy's name in the quote below.
I agree. Those waives, regardless of what they say, do not absolve a company from exercising general expected standards of care. They may shield a company from some general kind of lawsuit where the company exercised a reasonable standard of care, but many of the cases that come up in the news where lawsuits have been filed seem to involve clear negligence on a company's part.
And this is a kid's ride we are talking about. It would be different if something was inherently dangerous and people knew the risk going into it. But there is nothing inherently dangerous about a kids zipline.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
