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So should the government stop providing schools? (remember this is a parenting forum and I want to discuss this with parents)
No, but they should butt out of the running of schools. The more the government is involved, the less the kids learn. They have all these tests and kids are now taught to pass tests instead of focusing on the basics of education.
I personally oppose government run healthcare exactly because they run education and the post office and the transportation system.
I refuse to send my children to the public schools here.
I don't have much choice on the roads.
I generally avoid the post office if I want anything important shipped.
US Healthcare is in a crisis because of government intervention that created price-fixing and loopholes that allowed insurance companies and pharmaceuticals to unnecessarily drive up costs. Imagine, if one day you are charging five dollars to give a shot, and the government comes along and says, "I'll pay up to to ten dollars for you to give those shots, guaranteed!", how much is the price of shots going to be tomorrow? Yup, ten dollars minimum. I do not think more government intervention is going to fix this.
However, having said that, it looks like we're going to get something, no matter what we want, no matter what is smart, no matter what is fiscally responsible, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. Because of that, my one request is that no Congressman or Judge or President or any employee of government be exempt from whatever they pass. They must pay for it, and they must use it. If it is not good enough for the Congressmen it is not good enough for us.
And no matter what they pass, even if Congress is required to use it, I have absolute confidence that the government will screw it up in ways we can't possibly imagine yet.
This does belong on the politics thread but what many people around the world don't understand is that big government is against everything that makes us American. Those promoting this plan like to give us one example after another about people with breast cancer, overweight babies, those with diabetes, etc who are unable to find health insurance. Yes, we all understand that something needs to be done with the healthcare system. But that is a far cry from what is going on here and the reason so many people object to this, yet still sympathize with people who have to declare bankruptcy if they are diagnosed with cancer, is that this bill is a massive government takeover and intrusion into our lives. No amount of sob stories is going to change the fact that Americans don't trust the government to do the right thing. They haven't proven they can run anything more efficiently and we have no reason to expect that to change.
A previous poster is right on when they said that those screaming the loudest are not the majority. There hasn't been one legitimate public opinion poll to tell Congress that the American people want this. The numbers have never swayed in favor...not once. Poll numbers usually say 56% oppose (but that doesn't mean 44% approve. The approval numbers are low...in the 30s, the rest answer "I don't know".) There is just a sense of disbelief among voters that Congress is intentionally defying the will of the American people and assuming that we will thank them later. The people supporting this bill are telling members to vote yes now and then go home and do the PR. President Obama, who will go down in history as one of the greatest presidential speakers of all time, couldn't convince us...what makes them think that our local congressional member can? The more Americans hear about this, the less we like it, and we're not being swayed by all of the stories we hear, by all of the name calling those who oppose it are getting, or by any reassurances we get from the talking heads.
Someone sent this to me, but I think it should be public:
The LOUDEST are those opposing heathcare. They are the ones holding demonstrations. They are the ones the foreign press are portraying as viewing healtchcare as communist. They are the MINORITY.
There is nothing to prove this is the case. Over and over again, poll after poll has been taken and the American people have said time and again that they oppose this. It would make sense if Fox News viewers opposed this, but these are polls by Gallup and Rasmussen...polls that have never leaned one way or the other. For those who approve of this plan, Rasmussen today has only 45% approve of this bill. Pew shows 38%. CNN has 25% approve.
But to bring this back to Parenting...for those who want this bill to pass...I would ask you...if the government provides your family with insurance, do they then get to dictate what kind of lifestyle you get to live? If no, why not? Can't the government tell you that your kids can only play 30 minutes of Wii for every 30 minutes they spend outside doing physical activity? Can't the government tell you that you must replace Cheetos with apple slices in their lunchboxes if their weight exceeds acceptable BMI standards? Can they now tell you that you MUST get your kids immunized, even if you're worried about their effects, because you accept government run healthcare? Can't they tell you that your kids must eat a certain number of vegetables and send you reminders of when you are required to get your annual wellness exam? Can't the Presidental Fitness Test that we all endured in school be the standard and those kids who don't pass, must go to additional physical activity? If no, why not? If yes, I suppose you are more comfortable with government intrusion than I am.
What am I supposed to teach my kids about the government? I grew up singing along with School House Rock's "I'm just a bill" and nowhere in that song did it discuss "reconciliation" or "the slaughterhouse rule". A bill needs to go through Congress and get signed into law by the President. If there aren't enough votes to get a bill passed without resorting to bribing and backroom deals (with a little bit of educational reform thrown in), then it just shouldn't be allowed to pass. What does this tell our children? That if you try really hard but can't get ahead, it's okay to resort to lying and cheating? Sometimes it's terribly unfair...sometimes teams lose, after trying their best, by one point. No matter how many congressional members believe in what they are doing, no matter how many stories they hear from people who need healthcare coverage, if they can't pass this thing through regular process, it shouldn't be passed.
We are trying to raise our kids to "do your best" and sometimes your best isn't good enough to win. Congress has decided that if their best isn't good enough, resort to cheating. And then they have the nerve to say "well, the Republicans did it too." Isn't that the kid equivalent of "he hit me first"? For those who think it's okay because they want healthcare to pass, I would remind you that things that are "unprecedented" in politics are only "unprecedented" once. After that, they become "the way things are done." Politics in America is cyclical. There will be a time when the party you didn't vote for is in power and when that day comes, the new way of doing things will be "see if you have the votes and if you don't, go around the rules." Is this how we want our government to run things? Shouldn't we ask Congress to do the same thing we ask of our kids...accept defeat gracefully, don't cheat in order to get ahead, don't use the "he did it first" excuse? How about the fact that we try and teach our kids that "just because 'everyone' is doing it doesn't mean you should" and then asking Congress, no matter which party they belong to, to be the first to do the right thing without saying "well, in 1984, the Republicans did this under reconciliation...." The Dems hated that the Repubs did that and now they use it as an excuse. Will no one do the right thing and set an example for our kids who are just starting to learn about the government?
Finally...I worry about my kids growing up in a country where the government requires them to purchase something just because they live in America. There is nothing in this country that you are FORCED to buy. Don't want to buy car insurance? Don't drive. Don't want to purchase mortgage insurance? Rent. You get to choose what kind of clothes to buy, what kind of food to eat, etc. There will have to be another huge bureaucracy created just to keep track of who buys what kind of insurance.
Someone sent this to me, but I think it should be public:
The LOUDEST are those opposing heathcare. They are the ones holding demonstrations. They are the ones the foreign press are portraying as viewing healtchcare as communist. They are the MINORITY.
There is nothing to prove this is the case. Over and over again, poll after poll has been taken and the American people have said time and again that they oppose this. It would make sense if Fox News viewers opposed this, but these are polls by Gallup and Rasmussen...polls that have never leaned one way or the other. For those who approve of this plan, Rasmussen today has only 45% approve of this bill. Pew shows 38%. CNN has 25% approve.
But to bring this back to Parenting...for those who want this bill to pass...I would ask you...if the government provides your family with insurance, do they then get to dictate what kind of lifestyle you get to live? If no, why not? Can't the government tell you that your kids can only play 30 minutes of Wii for every 30 minutes they spend outside doing physical activity? Can't the government tell you that you must replace Cheetos with apple slices in their lunchboxes if their weight exceeds acceptable BMI standards? Can they now tell you that you MUST get your kids immunized, even if you're worried about their effects, because you accept government run healthcare? Can't they tell you that your kids must eat a certain number of vegetables and send you reminders of when you are required to get your annual wellness exam? Can't the Presidental Fitness Test that we all endured in school be the standard and those kids who don't pass, must go to additional physical activity? If no, why not? If yes, I suppose you are more comfortable with government intrusion than I am.
What am I supposed to teach my kids about the government? I grew up singing along with School House Rock's "I'm just a bill" and nowhere in that song did it discuss "reconciliation" or "the slaughterhouse rule". A bill needs to go through Congress and get signed into law by the President. If there aren't enough votes to get a bill passed without resorting to bribing and backroom deals (with a little bit of educational reform thrown in), then it just shouldn't be allowed to pass. What does this tell our children? That if you try really hard but can't get ahead, it's okay to resort to lying and cheating? Sometimes it's terribly unfair...sometimes teams lose, after trying their best, by one point. No matter how many congressional members believe in what they are doing, no matter how many stories they hear from people who need healthcare coverage, if they can't pass this thing through regular process, it shouldn't be passed.
We are trying to raise our kids to "do your best" and sometimes your best isn't good enough to win. Congress has decided that if their best isn't good enough, resort to cheating. And then they have the nerve to say "well, the Republicans did it too." Isn't that the kid equivalent of "he hit me first"? For those who think it's okay because they want healthcare to pass, I would remind you that things that are "unprecedented" in politics are only "unprecedented" once. After that, they become "the way things are done." Politics in America is cyclical. There will be a time when the party you didn't vote for is in power and when that day comes, the new way of doing things will be "see if you have the votes and if you don't, go around the rules." Is this how we want our government to run things? Shouldn't we ask Congress to do the same thing we ask of our kids...accept defeat gracefully, don't cheat in order to get ahead, don't use the "he did it first" excuse? How about the fact that we try and teach our kids that "just because 'everyone' is doing it doesn't mean you should" and then asking Congress, no matter which party they belong to, to be the first to do the right thing without saying "well, in 1984, the Republicans did this under reconciliation...." The Dems hated that the Repubs did that and now they use it as an excuse. Will no one do the right thing and set an example for our kids who are just starting to learn about the government?
Finally...I worry about my kids growing up in a country where the government requires them to purchase something just because they live in America. There is nothing in this country that you are FORCED to buy. Don't want to buy car insurance? Don't drive. Don't want to purchase mortgage insurance? Rent. You get to choose what kind of clothes to buy, what kind of food to eat, etc. There will have to be another huge bureaucracy created just to keep track of who buys what kind of insurance.
AMEN.
And anyone who thinks those in opposition to this health plan are in the minority is out to lunch.
The media is doing its best to keep the will of the majority from truly being known, that's all.
There will have to be another huge bureaucracy created just to keep track of who buys what kind of insurance.
Yes, I agree. Aixden, I read the article you linked about the Austrailian system, and-not to be disrespectful at all- it sounds like a boondoggle of plans, rules, fines and levies.
I think most American parents think we should have some sort of reforms. I do worry that my asthmatic son may someday be denied health coverage because of his asthma. I think how pre-existing conditions are dealt with, should be adressed.
I'll be honest-with all this looming, I have run my entire brood through the doctors and dentists, catching up on everything and even saw a specialist myself-in fear that this 'reform' thing will blow up on us all and make things near impossible. And I'm not the only parent who's done so.
It's really not even a Republican versus a Democrat thing for me. It's just that I would like one party to do the right thing...put a bill up for a vote and vote on it without secretly cutting deals, without trying to obscure what's in the bill. Is that too much to ask?
The American people aren't stupid. It's easy to dismiss every single person at a protest (either for or against) as a crazy right/left-wing nutjob, but the reality is that there have been polls taken nearly every week since the beginning of the healthcare debate and there is a lot of stuff that the American people agree on. It's not fair for those who are against the current bill to be labeled as people who want everyone to die. That's just not true.
To continue on the parenting thread, I worry about what this means for my children and how the government will behave in the future. There have been procedural rules since the Constitution was written and signed and I am worried that if one party starts this way of doing things, it will never return to the way it should be. You can see it now...the Democrats are trying to go around the rules and then accusing the Republicans of being hypocritical when they criticize because they did it too. When the Republicans are in power (and they will be because American politics is cyclical), they will then use this year as an example when they want to circumvent the system. As a parent who seems to be always telling my daughter that "just because she did it doesn't mean you have to do it too"...I watch in shock and horror as our elected officials resort to schoolyard excuses and refuse to be the first to stand up and do the right thing. I worry that the government is going to become so big and intrusive that any incentive for my daughters (when they grow up) will be completely sucked away because the government will do everything for them. America has always been a place where hard work and perseverance pays off. Once the government starts to intervene and allow people to not take personal responsibility for their choices, it all starts to go downhill fast.
I think the idea that we could go on as we have is silly. There has been movement towards a single payer, universal or national system for decades now, it's not something Obama...or even Clinton...just "thought up". And most people do understand that access to medical care without plunging yourself into debt is for the good of society. I'd rather pay tax monies towards something that benifits everyone than pay for some of the things our tax $ goes towards now. Healthcare I can get behind, other things not so much.
As a parent my hope is for whatever happens to allow adult children to remain on their parents policy until age 26 regardless of their student status. That is in this bill and part of the FIRST WAVE of reform to take place in 2010. This is a immediate need since it those in their 20's who are most likely not to have insurance, or jobs that give it to them. My daughter will graduate college in May and my insurance company is currently witholding payments for her latest Dr's appointments until I call them and give them the exact date of her graduation so they know when they can cut her off. That's right, they are WITHOLDING PAYMENTS ON AN INSURED INDIVIDUAL...it's their not so subtle way of blackmailing me. I'm waiting until she actually graduates then I will respond. Until then they can fight it out with our Dr's...I'm not going to feel guilty about it.
Insurance reform is what is needed, no question. But socialist agendas, including free health care for everyone, go against the grain of the American way of life. Because you see, it's not really "free" - just like freedom is not really free - somebody pays and pays dearly.
Thomas Jefferson said it best over 200 years ago when the American Colonies were dealing with that English tryant of a king, George -
"The government that governs least, governs best."
-Thomas Jefferson
"A government big enough to give you everything you desire, is strong enough to take away everything you have."
-Thomas Jefferson
Right now with Obama in office our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.
WOW!! I also agree with this !!!!
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