Is Western PA similar to Long Island/NYC and the "East Coast"? (Pittsburgh: transplants, home)

[FL_Watch]

I'm not referring to Pittsburgh either. But cities like Meadville, Altoona, Erie, etc.

Are they culturally identical to the East Coast megapolis? By that, I mean filled with affluent white-collar folks who are mostly of Italian descent and/or of Jewish faith. If someone were to move from white-collar, suburban Westchester County NY to Oil City PA, would they feel a culture shock in any way? Are there any cultural differences between the NYC area and NW PA?

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by FL_Watch

I'm not referring to Pittsburgh either. But cities like Meadville, Altoona, Erie, etc.

Are they culturally identical to the East Coast megapolis? By that, I mean filled with affluent white-collar folks who are mostly of Italian descent and/or of Jewish faith. If someone were to move from white-collar, suburban Westchester County NY to Oil City PA, would they feel a culture shock in any way? Are there any cultural differences between the NYC area and NW PA?

Answer to your first question: Absolutely not.

First of all, these smaller Western Pennsylvania cities are not "filled with affluent white-collar folks," and second, the residents of the cities of the Northeast megalopolis are not "mostly of Italian descent and/or of Jewish faith." (I'd like to meet these Italian Jews you've heard about.) All of them I'm familiar with save Washington have significant Irish-American, Hispanic and African-American populations. (Washington has the latter but not much in the way of identifiably ethnic whites or Hispanics.) Maybe not in their suburbs (Washington here being the notable exception), but in the core cities definitely you'll find sizable African-American populations. Western Pennsylvania is a good deal whiter than the Northeast megalopolis.

Most of these smaller Pennsylvania cities are a little more down-at-heels economically than Westchester County, and they're more blue-collar in their heritage. (Pennsylvania is becoming somewhat bifurcated economically: the Southeast is the state's economic engine, and Pittsburgh and Allegheny County are on the rise, but most of the rest of the state is at best stagnant, even Harrisburg and the rest of the counties that make up Greater Pittsburgh (Meadville is in one of them, IIRC). Centre County does fine thanks to Penn State, and Lancaster, York and Adams (Gettysburg) counties do benefit from spillover from adjacent economically stronger regions, and Lancaster also benefits from a robust tourist economy and strong agricultural sector, but I wouldn't characterize the rest of the state as healthy.)

Western Pennsylvania residents IMO display a more "Midwestern" attitude than their counterparts on the other side of the Alleghenies to boot.

I don't have enough time to delve into all the ways Western Pennsylvania differs culturally from the New York City region, but I'll start by saying that people in that part of the state are neither rushed nor on the make.

[FL_Watch]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Answer to your first question: Absolutely not.

First of all, these smaller Western Pennsylvania cities are not "filled with affluent white-collar folks," and second, the residents of the cities of the Northeast megalopolis are not "mostly of Italian descent and/or of Jewish faith." (I'd like to meet these Italian Jews you've heard about.) All of them I'm familiar with save Washington have significant Irish-American, Hispanic and African-American populations. (Washington has the latter but not much in the way of identifiably ethnic whites or Hispanics.) Maybe not in their suburbs (Washington here being the notable exception), but in the core cities definitely you'll find sizable African-American populations. Western Pennsylvania is a good deal whiter than the Northeast megalopolis.

Most of these smaller Pennsylvania cities are a little more down-at-heels economically than Westchester County, and they're more blue-collar in their heritage. (Pennsylvania is becoming somewhat bifurcated economically: the Southeast is the state's economic engine, and Pittsburgh and Allegheny County are on the rise, but most of the rest of the state is at best stagnant, even Harrisburg and the rest of the counties that make up Greater Pittsburgh (Meadville is in one of them, IIRC). Centre County does fine thanks to Penn State, and Lancaster, York and Adams (Gettysburg) counties do benefit from spillover from adjacent economically stronger regions, and Lancaster also benefits from a robust tourist economy and strong agricultural sector, but I wouldn't characterize the rest of the state as healthy.)

Western Pennsylvania residents IMO display a more "Midwestern" attitude than their counterparts on the other side of the Alleghenies to boot.

I don't have enough time to delve into all the ways Western Pennsylvania differs culturally from the New York City region, but I'll start by saying that people in that part of the state are neither rushed nor on the make.

THANK YOU for confirming what I already knew. But I've heard folks on this forum equate NW PA/SW NY (and not just Pittsburgh or Buffalo either) with NYC and Boston.
I've heard statements akin to as soon as you cross the OH/PA border, into Ohio, you might as well be in Mars. I've heard people imply that all of the geographic Northeast is uniform, and that absolutely NO part of Pennsylvania or WNY has anything in common with ANYWHERE in the Midwest.
That way of thinking baffles me. I knew they were wrong all along. Thank you for your thoughtful debunking of their theory.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by FL_Watch

I've heard people imply that all of the geographic Northeast is uniform, and that absolutely NO part of Pennsylvania or WNY has anything in common with ANYWHERE in the Midwest.

I've personally never heard/seen anyone implying such a thing. If anything, you'll often see the later (that is, because places like WPA and WNY are distinctly different from the Northeast Corridor, they're not really the Northeast), which is quite silly, as the "Northeast" is not a cultural region; it's geographical.

No segment of the US is uniform in culture; not the West, not the South and not the Midwest, either.

Also, generally speaking, the US is converging into a dynamic where large, major metropolitan areas hundreds or even thousands of miles apart have greater similarities to one another as compared to neighboring, much less urban/rural areas.

[Gerania]

Originally Posted by FL_Watch

THANK YOU for confirming what I already knew. But I've heard folks on this forum equate NW PA/SW NY (and not just Pittsburgh or Buffalo either) with NYC and Boston.
I've heard statements akin to as soon as you cross the OH/PA border, into Ohio, you might as well be in Mars. I've heard people imply that all of the geographic Northeast is uniform, and that absolutely NO part of Pennsylvania or WNY has anything in common with ANYWHERE in the Midwest.
That way of thinking baffles me. I knew they were wrong all along. Thank you for your thoughtful debunking of their theory.

It wasn't a good question. Altoona? Come on.

[eschaton]

No, there's not that much similarity between rural Western Pennsylvania and NYC. But somewhere like Erie isn't much different from Upstate NY, which in turn has similarities to New England. No one ever says that rural Vermont or Maine or whatever isn't "culturally Northeastern" even though it's rural, very white, and has very different ethnic groups than the Acela corridor.

Ultimately, Northeastern and Midwestern are just geographic designations set up by the census Bureau, not cultural areas similar to the south. Thus it's futile (and ridiculous) to try to come up with commonalities shared across the regions.

[Icy Tea]

Yes, massive cultural shock moving from Hudson River Valley NY to western Pa. The closest to Westchester County NY in Pa would be Bucks or the Mainline/ Montgomery County Pa around KOP.
That area has more of an Ohio/ Great Lakes NY feel. Small rural towns, bordering Appalachia. Not quite in the coal fields just East/ SE but also not quite in the rust belt where steel mills sit idle. I think railroads were big moving freight through the region.
Oil City. I think I was there, or at least near there when visiting the Drake Well Museum. Its not a bad area as far as scenery goes. Lakes, some swamps and streams, forests, and wide open spaces of fields and pasture. I was in the Hudson River valley as well, incredible scenery and architecture.

[CookieSkoon]

Nothing west of Binghamton, NY/Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, PA has much, if anything, in common with the coastal areas.

Even then, the only reason the Catskills/eastern southern tier and NEPA have anything in common with the coast is because of transplants and commerce, and it is pretty limited to the urban areas.

Generally, if you start seeing the Appalachian mountains, you are no longer on the coast.

Then you have Central and Western NY/Central and Western PA transitioning to the eastern Midwest. Having more cultural similarities to Ohio, northern WV, and Michigan (and to a degree, southern Ontario) than NYC, New Jersey and Connecticut.

Throw in the flavors of northern Appalachia and the eastern extent of the rust belt (in manufacturing terms) and the whole "western northeast" is just absolutely nothing like NYC/the coast.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Nothing west of Binghamton, NY/Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, PA has much, if anything, in common with the coastal areas.

Even then, the only reason the Catskills/eastern southern tier and NEPA have anything in common with the coast is because of transplants and commerce, and it is pretty limited to the urban areas.

Generally, if you start seeing the Appalachian mountains, you are no longer on the coast.

Then you have Central and Western NY/Central and Western PA transitioning to the eastern Midwest. Having more cultural similarities to Ohio, northern WV, and Michigan (and to a degree, southern Ontario) than NYC, New Jersey and Connecticut.

Throw in the flavors of northern Appalachia and the eastern extent of the rust belt (in manufacturing terms) and the whole "western northeast" is just absolutely nothing like NYC/the coast.

I think this is a really good synopsis. There are just a lot of "layers" in old and relatively large (at least, in Northeastern terms) states like Pennsylvania and New York that have built-up over time.

Not only because of their geographic size, but also since their foundings as colonies they've both historically been home to a wide-range of settlements, cultures and industries.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by Duderino

I think this is a really good synopsis. There are just a lot of "layers" in old and relatively large (at least, in Northeastern terms) states like Pennsylvania and New York that have built-up over time.

Not only because of their geographic size, but also since their foundings as colonies they've both historically been home to a wide-range of settlements, cultures and industries.

Thanks.

The terrain has a major effect historically too. The masses from the east tended to stick to canals, long valleys and lowlands that were easier to traverse. The hill country of NY and most of PA was once seen as a sort of badlands that only natives and roughnecks could master.

Initially those roughnecks were the Dutch. haha The fancy tea-timers stuck to the harbors.