[howard555]

Originally Posted by hcgCali

Thanks for looking, Ecam. You have a high success rate for finding people on FB, so if you didn't find them they probably aren't on there.
The link was helpful in establishing the timeline for their whereabouts. Now we know that they were in Montana prior to 2005.

Howard, I think I may have found the name change. Go here: http://caselookup.shastacourts.com:8...bin/webcase01r
Click on "search by name". Type "Cannupp" in the box for "last name" and leave "first name" blank. Click "search" and up pops evidence of a record for "Cannupp, Willard Marshall Jr." But the info doesn't come up when the link is clicked. There's a record but it's not accessible online. However you can go here http://www.shastacourts.com/PDF/publicaccess.pdf for information on how to contact the court to get the record.
I believe it's going to be a petition for a name change. That makes more sense than "the mother in law changed the birth certificate". And also explains how your friend knew about it, because the father would have had to either consent up front or be served notice of the hearing. After the court issued the order, the mother would then fill out paperwork with North Carolina to have the birth certificate reissued with the new name. At that point the original info would have been removed from the Birth Index, which is why we can't find the record. Getting this court file will tell us for sure if JJ is Willard jr., as well as his correct legal name.

I called N.C. Vital Records and there was some confusion. They said I need the court order, etc. Then they looked up the name Jay Reed and found none associated with 9-22-72. But, they mentioned these names:
1. Vivian Reed
2. "Lynder." (possible slang for Lynda).

I am not clear what they were looking at.

At one point I thought I heard them say "someone's last name was Lynder."
It was not clear, as they were confused about why I was calling.


Then they told me, "oh we do not have information on adoptions" and referred me to that department. I'm waiting on a reply from them and I'll try to explain matters to them.

So, there seems to be a chance that the Grandmother legally adopted the grandson(?)

I have not been able to look at the links you gave me for Shasta County.
I will though, thanks for the advice and help.

[hcgCali]

1. Divorce date. The date in the index could be the date of filing rather than the date of the final decree. It would make more sense that it's the decree date, but perhaps their filing system is based on the file date. If it's the filing date, that puts it at 2 months after the birth, when we know Lynda was back in CA. It really doesn't matter, as the issue was, "did they actually divorce?" and we got the answer, "Yes, and they both remarried."

2. Marriage to Katherine. The only reason I asked was to determine if the record was him or his son, to help with the timeline of when the name change occured. The record didn't have ages or birthdates of the parties. It doesn't matter that he doesn't remember the date. We've already established he's fuzzy on dates and doesn't keep his paperwork on life events, lol.

3. Yes, Lynda could have changed her name back to Reed. Lots of people do that after divorce. (But not widows. Widows usually keep the surname) On CA divorce forms it's just a matter of checking the box that says you want to resume using your maiden name. We don't know how long the marriage to Reynolds lasted, or where they lived. CA and NC have a lot of vital records available but other states like Washington don't.

4. It's not common to change the child's name to the stepfather's name, unless he legally adopts the child. JJ could have already been a Reed at the time of the Reynolds marriage, or it could have been done after the divorce when Lynda went back to using Reed.

5. Yes, I've wondered all along if Vivian adopted the boy, since he's attached to her in all the address records and there's no sign of Lynda. But the court record in Shasta County made me think it was just a name change, because if it was an adoption the record would be sealed and we wouldn't see his name on the court website. That's the record you should be calling about.

6. "A question I have is, would the newly issued birth certificate with the changed name, still have Willard Cannupp as the birth father, or would that space be left blank?"

That would be determined by the court order. If it was a simple name change he could still be listed as the father. If he gave up his paternal rights it may have been left blank. If there was an adoption by the grandmother, neither birth parent would be listed.

Remember, Willard knew about the name change. He had notice. Not once has he said it was against his will or that he went to court to fight it. He probably gave up his paternal rights in exchange for not having to pay child support. His memory is conveniently fuzzy in areas that might paint him in a bad light. This is a byproduct of having a friend/neighbor help him instead of his directly working with a disinterested stranger on the internet. He's going to care what you think about him, not wanting you to judge him, so he's volunteering very little and only confirms things as you confront him. As long as you are aware of that and focus on the records, it's immaterial.

7. I'll revisit the NC birth Index and see if I can find anything on Vivian or Lynder (probably just a typo or misread by the transcriptionist )

edit: Re the jail visit. The visit may have been for the purpose of having him sign papers, either for the divorce or for the name change.

[howard555]

hcgCali:
ok, lots of good information.

I believe Willard on many things. If he is trying to cover his rear end, he can fib.
If he tells you someone tried to break into his house at 3am you can believe it.
If you ask him how their s.s. check is all gone by the 3rd week of the month, you won't get a reply.

He was willing to tell me he was in prison in Washington State. That is fairly personal information.

I'm not getting a call from the adoption dept. for the State of N.C.
I'll have to give them a followup call tomorrow.

I never brought up Vivian's name, and they did. They were searching the birthdate, and Lynda, and got no match.

I know from searching my own ancestors, that records from late 1800's could be sketchy, inaccurate, etc.
Record keeping back in the early 1970's may have been less than 100% too.

Jay (JJ) has known someone, as his Father, for 38 years, so Willard Sr. needs to be careful.
He needs some documents. If it is his son, Jay could call his Mother or Father saying "a Mr. Cannupp says he is my biological Father."
His Mother and/or Father might tell him, it is a mistake, and Mr. Cannupp has the wrong information.

I do not think this was a case of child abandonment.
Willard talks about going to his Grandmother's grave to talk to her. I do not think he walked out of his son's life. He lost contact, at some point, or his letters or phone calls were not answered, etc. when Vivian was on the war path.
I'll try to find out what he and Lynda talked about when she visited him in prison.
Surely his son was mentioned.

[howard555]

Originally Posted by hcgCali

edit: Re the jail visit. The visit may have been for the purpose of having him sign papers, either for the divorce or for the name change.

That may be what happened.
He told me he did not give consent. I said, "well if the court tried to send you papers and they never got delivered, I guess they figured you "consented" by default, or by being adsent."

Or maybe a lawyer was involved and got past the Father's consent part of the process.

[howard555]

[quote=hcgCali;21009969]


Name: Billy Ray Reed
Birth Date: 19 Jan 1992

Name: Corey J Reed
Birth Date: 16 Sep 1993

Name: Derrick Dean Reed
Birth Date: 16 Jan 1995
------------------------------------------------------
On social network I found, a young female joking about planning to kidnap Derrick, Corey, and Billy on Halloween. Last names not used.

[hcgCali]

I'm not getting a call from the adoption dept. for the State of N.C.

You are not going to get any information from them.

1. Adoption records are sealed. They wouldn't divulge anything to you, nor to anyone over the phone. Under NC law a party to the adoption may be able to get info if there was a postadoption contract between the birth and adoption parents providing for communication between them. That's not the case here, and if it was, Willard would have to prove who he is, in writing, before anything could happen.

2. The adoption would not have taken place in NC, so they would not have any records. NC is just the keeper of the birth record. If there was an adoption, it would be in Shasta County, CA where the parties lived. Again, your best bet is the court record for Willard Jr. at the Shasta County Superior Court. Court records are public info and you can get a copy unless it has been sealed.

Unless you post a link to the social network site, I can't really comment about what you found. It would be helpful to know what city/state the young lady lives in, as the boys are still young enough to probably live with their parents. But since you indicated you won't contact any family member unless you have proof in writing that jj is Willard's son, there's no reason to spend any more time tracking anyone.

[howard555]

Originally Posted by hcgCali

You are not going to get any information from them.

1. Adoption records are sealed. They wouldn't divulge anything to you, nor to anyone over the phone. Under NC law a party to the adoption may be able to get info if there was a postadoption contract between the birth and adoption parents providing for communication between them. That's not the case here, and if it was, Willard would have to prove who he is, in writing, before anything could happen.

2. The adoption would not have taken place in NC, so they would not have any records. NC is just the keeper of the birth record. If there was an adoption, it would be in Shasta County, CA where the parties lived. Again, your best bet is the court record for Willard Jr. at the Shasta County Superior Court. Court records are public info and you can get a copy unless it has been sealed.

Unless you post a link to the social network site, I can't really comment about what you found. It would be helpful to know what city/state the young lady lives in, as the boys are still young enough to probably live with their parents. But since you indicated you won't contact any family member unless you have proof in writing that jj is Willard's son, there's no reason to spend any more time tracking anyone.

I thought that would be Willard's correct action.
First, request a copy of the original birth certificate.
That process takes up to 12 weeks according to the state website.
Then determine if there was an adoption or a name change, and decide how he would like to proceed.

I think you said a legal name change would involve a second birth certificate in N.C.
And the State of N.C. should have both the new one, and the original.

He has two brothers 20 miles away, not seen since the 1970's. When I search one of them, I get results but it keeps giving me the Father who passed away at age 88. His son, and Willard's brother, was a Jr.

I needed to locate someone I had not seen since 1986 in Louisiana.
My local library gave me this website, which I have found to be helpful in some cases.
www dot anywho dot com.

[hcgCali]

We're all aware of Anywho... it's just an online phonebook, as good as any other.

As to your course of action:
1. Trying to get a copy of the original BC isn't going to accomplish anything. Willard already knows the info that's on the original, and if it's been sealed, he can't get a copy. You said NC told you the record isn't in their files. That means it's been sealed.
2. I keep trying to get you to determine if there was an adoption or name change, by contacting the Shasta Superior Court and requesting a copy of the document under the name of Willard Marshall Cannupp Jr. Unless your friend is a Jr, this document is about his son. This is the third time I've told you that this is the easiest course of action to learn what's going on.

I think you said a legal name change would involve a second birth certificate in N.C.
And the State of N.C. should have both the new one, and the original.

Yes, a legal name change or an adoption would involve sealing the original BC and issuing a new one. But if the state of N.C told you they don't have a record of the new one, (did you have them check for "J J Reed", or just Jay Reed? Because Jay could be the nickname and J J could be the legal name) then you have to consider other possibilities, such as, the new one may have been issued by the state of California.

I've solved a bazillion searches, and my recommendation is to call some of the Olmstead relatives listed in this thread, explain you're calling on behalf of a relative and see if anyone has contact info for JJ. Then, call JJ. Explain that your friend Willard Marshall Cannupp was married to Lynda Geraldine Reed, whose parents were JS and Vivian Reed of Anderson, CA. Explain that Willard and Lynda had a son born Sept 22, 1972 and divorced soon after, and that Willard believes Lynda had the boy's name changed to Reed. Tell him Willard is trying to find that son. Trust me, he will listen, because you have so many facts that match his. He knows he has his mother's maiden name. He's bound to be curious, even if he was never told all the facts. And Vivian is no longer around to interfere. He's 39 years old...he can handle it.

Or, you can make it harder than it has to be and spend months searching for the original and revised BCs and following every side trail and distraction that pops up along the way. Reading between the lines, that you are also searching for Willard's brothers, I'm guessing Willard is not in the best of health and you really should take the fastest route to reuniting them.

[howard555]

Originally Posted by hcgCali

2. I keep trying to get you to determine if there was an adoption or name change, by contacting the Shasta Superior Court and requesting a copy of the document under the name of Willard Marshall Cannupp Jr. Unless your friend is a Jr, this document is about his son. This is the third time I've told you that this is the easiest course of action to learn what's going on.

Yes, this will be my next step.
Thanks for the links and all your, time consuming, help.

[howard555]

hcgCali:
I have sent shastacourts an inquiry about the records.

I did get a call from N.C. vital records.
If there was a name change, N.C. would have a record of both certificates. And as you said, one or the other would be sealed.
I'll wait to hear from Shasta County.

Thanks.

By the way, in searching for Beatrice, Willard's Aunt, I find her buried in two different cemeteries, it seems. Both show the same date of birth and death. One said she died in 1987, but on the gravestone in the photo, you can clearly see 1984.