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I think there are more important things than money. I don't make a jaw dropping salary, but I like my job enough that if I were to win the lottery I wouldn't stop doing it. I don't think that many people with just a high school diploma can say the same.
I think there are more important things than money. I don't make a jaw dropping salary, but I like my job enough that if I were to win the lottery I wouldn't stop doing it. I don't think that many people with just a high school diploma can say the same.
There's a lot of snobbery in that statement, Chemistry_Guy. Like only the post HS educated can find satisfying jobs and careers, right?
I know a lot of degreed/salaried folk who spend substantial sums of money on various lottery tickets every week, and despite having some affluence already ... brag about their "plans" if and when they win. None of their plans include continuing to work ... it's all about recreation, travel, etc.
By the same token, I know a fair number of HS graduates in service businesses or trades who make decent money, are satisfied and happy with their lives ... and wouldn't change anything if they were to win the "big one". In fact, I have neighbors who have done so and continue to operate their dryland wheat farm as they have for the last 50 years.
I've been saying for years that if you dont attend a top 50 school, and someone else isnt paying for it, you might as well not even bother, because you are probably going to come out no better then what the guy directly entering the workforce out of high school is doing, but youll be in a boatload of debt.
All things being equal, though, there are some jobs that people with only a high school diploma won't get hired for.
Back in the day when I hired newspaper reporters, if Person A and Person B had the equivalent skills and talent, but Person B went to college, Person B would get the job. Why? Because college gives people exposure and experiences you just don't get otherwise, and to me those exposures and experiences were important in doing the job well.
[quote=Ohiogirl81;24082477]All things being equal, though, there are some jobs that people with only a high school diploma won't get hired for.
Back in the day when I hired newspaper reporters, if Person A and Person B had the equivalent skills and talent, but Person B went to college, Person B would get the job. Why? Because college gives people exposure and experiences you just don't get otherwise, and to me those exposures and experiences were important in doing the job well.[/QUOTE]
More pseudo-intellectual post HS education snobbery here ... if the two "had the equivalent skills and talent" in your assessment, then they were both equally qualified for the job. "Equivalent skills" is an assertion that Person A can observe, question, and write with the same capacity and insight as Person B. I'd be more concerned with the motivation and determination at that point in the hiring process that the prospect demonstrated.
I've worked alongside HS grads who had more street smarts and living experiences going to work out of HS than a whole bunch of professional college students ... who appeared to major in trivial pursuits with a second major in alcohol facilities inspection, skiing, traveling, and other important life skills which had absolutely nothing to do with their minimal studies.
Fact is that I spent a number of years taking exams for college students in their respective liberal arts degree programs. I didn't attend their classes, but I did read some of the course materials and consistently got them the requisite A's and B's that their families expected for their diligent efforts and dollars spent. I tutored a number of college students for classes that I never took, and got them through their exams, too, where they were otherwise failing the courses. I did it for the experience with the class material and the money .... emphasis on the latter.
So perhaps you'll understand where I'm coming from on this when it comes to automatically inferring quality of knowledge and understanding just because somebody has a BA, even from a highly rated private liberal arts school. I listen to the person and observe their actual performance ... the piece of paper in the frame on the wall doesn't do the work.
Having had PhD's work for me in my shop, I know first-hand that even that advanced level of study doesn't confer superior knowledge or diagnostic abilities. Some of those folk were the most functionally inept people I've ever seen, and they weren't able to perform to the most basic levels of following directions and completing tasks that many HS grads could do.
Of course, there are some who actually take their studies seriously and acquire skills which aren't readily accessible without the college education. But in my experience as a business owner over the last 45 years, they are fewer and further between than ever.
All things being equal, though, there are some jobs that people with only a high school diploma won't get hired for.
Back in the day when I hired newspaper reporters, if Person A and Person B had the equivalent skills and talent, but Person B went to college, Person B would get the job. Why? Because college gives people exposure and experiences you just don't get otherwise, and to me those exposures and experiences were important in doing the job well.[/QUOTE]
More pseudo-intellectual post HS education snobbery here ... if the two "had the equivalent skills and talent" in your assessment, then they were both equally qualified for the job. "Equivalent skills" is an assertion that Person A can observe, question, and write with the same capacity and insight as Person B. I'd be more concerned with the motivation and determination at that point in the hiring process that the prospect demonstrated.
I've worked alongside HS grads who had more street smarts and living experiences going to work out of HS than a whole bunch of professional college students ... who appeared to major in trivial pursuits with a second major in alcohol facilities inspection, skiing, traveling, and other important life skills which had absolutely nothing to do with their minimal studies.
Fact is that I spent a number of years taking exams for college students in their respective liberal arts degree programs. I didn't attend their classes, but I did read some of the course materials and consistently got them the requisite A's and B's that their families expected for their diligent efforts and dollars spent. I tutored a number of college students for classes that I never took, and got them through their exams, too, where they were otherwise failing the courses. I did it for the experience with the class material and the money .... emphasis on the latter.
So perhaps you'll understand where I'm coming from on this when it comes to automatically inferring quality of knowledge and understanding just because somebody has a BA, even from a highly rated private liberal arts school. I listen to the person and observe their actual performance ... the piece of paper in the frame on the wall doesn't do the work.
Having had PhD's work for me in my shop, I know first-hand that even that advanced level of study doesn't confer superior knowledge or diagnostic abilities. Some of those folk were the most functionally inept people I've ever seen, and they weren't able to perform to the most basic levels of following directions and completing tasks that many HS grads could do.
Of course, there are some who actually take their studies seriously and acquire skills which aren't readily accessible without the college education. But in my experience as a business owner over the last 45 years, they are fewer and further between than ever.
While I would never dissuade someone from getting an education, I don't see the practicality of going deeply into debt for something intangible with dubious return. Education is only one piece of the puzzle; one also needs a work ethic and social skills, among other things. I have supervised people with Master's degrees and Ph.Ds that, quite frankly weren't smart enough to come out of the rain. Plus, I meet a fair amount of people that have a sense of entitlement wrt promotions and salary, solely because of the degree, without the drive and skills to back it up. There are many avenues to professional development, and that 4 year (or more) degree isn't the panacea that many people make it out to be.
I graduated from a public school with a 30k student body, with a degree in Finance, almost 8 years ago. I have yet to even crack the median salary offered to college graduates, and have been laid off twice.
And you are going to stick with that path . . . . .
Many companies recruit from universities, I am not aware of any that recruit from high school.
Take two equally intelligent and motivated people, give one additional education...
I paid $20K for a 4 year degree in the early eighties, even then it took a long time to realize any substantial benefit. Presently, I make at least 10% more than my peers with HS diplomas, some of whom are 10-15 years my senior.
A college degree may enable you to work in a specific field, one that may not allow entry to a HS graduate. It may not just be about pay, but rather access to certain careers. You cannot even get a job as a teacher with only a HS diploma.
The unemployment rate is always lower for college graduates, all other things being equal. "Across the board, unemployment rates have doubled. However when comparing the unemployment rate of high school graduates to college graduates, The Economist reports it is much higher for those with only a high school diploma: 9.4% compared to 4.2%. The good news however, is that unemployment rate is declining for both high school and college graduates at nearly the same rate." The Economist 02/11/2011
There will always be individuals who skip college and do very well. They seem to often be entrepreneurs and people who work hard to earn respect and advancement. Some go back later in life to get the degree they desire.
Besides lifetime earning potential, an advanced education can provide an individual with less obvious life skills and confidence that may have a more subtle influence on success and satisfaction.
All in all, things have not changed that much over the years, except the cost of education is much higher. Had I not postponed my career, after 4 years of working to go to college, kept/invested the 20 grand and worked full time those 3 1/2 years, I would be retired right now with a 35 year pension. The road not taken...
Last edited by shaker281; 05-01-2012 at 01:16 AM..
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