Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Part of the problem with our generation and those younger than us are that we are of a moral code that the elder generations weren't. Shacking up might save money in terms of housing costs, especially if the couple plans on getting married later. The main issue with non-married house playing is what has happened with your girlfriend: No insurance. Plus, many of my elderly relatives (WW2 Gen) got married in their early to mid-20s. So spouse had benefits early on in life even if they didn't work. The ability to save money mostly was dependent on if kids came soon or not. In my family, kids came fairly soon (and I wouldn't be surprised if a future kid wasn't the cause of some marriages). However, going out to eat was rare, as was everyone in the family having their own car. At most, there were two cars for the adults. The older teens just used mom and dad's car as needed.
First off, I would stop 401(k) contributions. I have a big problem with younger people with a minimal ability to save a good amount of cash putting money into a vehicle with all sort of rules and regulations. Also, do you really trust the government? They can change the rules whenever they want, and since the big-government, government is the best have the power (both Dems and Republicans), there are already mumblings about another social security type plan, with people turning over their retirement accounts to the government (would be voluntary or forced, only time will tell).
She is likely making at least $2,000/month take home to sit around and do nothing. That is what "retirement" is, sitting around and being unproductive. Humans living a "retirement" is a relatively new concept in terms of human history. Decades ago, retirement was something people did because many seemed to have their health decline soon after, if not pass away within years. Social security was set up as a way to keep people feed for about five years of their life. Now the entire system is screwed up, with baby boomers thinking they are owed some grandiose retirement lifestyle, that retired life should be no different than life when they were working: Same amount of vacations, don't worry about not having home paid off, buying new cars every four or so years, etc.. Some folks do get it, but others don't, and are appalled they have to seriously cut back their living expenses or go back to work.
If you want to get ahead in life, start saving money. If you don't marry your GF soon, and she continues to have medical debt, something will have to be done about that (don't marry someone with boat loads of debt. This doesn't mean dump them, but both parties should understand the marriage will then become a liability, and all assets should be kept in the name of the SO without the debt burden. Or, maybe have her file bankruptcy before the marriage???). Anyways, making money when one can and living frugal is the key.
I wish it was that simple. I've highlighted a few things that stood out. First off, relationships have changed these days, marriage isn't what it used to be, one, and two, we are a same sex couple, I would marry her yesterday and put her on my insurance but in our state of Florida United HealthCare does not provide benefits to domestic partners. Blue Cross Blue Shield does, so I will be looking for another job soon and only will take if I can get benefits for her. My GF's job actually does provide insurance to domestic partners opposite sex or same sex, so it's possible even without getting married, but my job at this moment does not.
Second, no, her mom takes home $1600 total between SS and pension to sit around and do nothing. One thing I will agree with you on is that she expects a similar lifestyle as to when she was working. She chose to take SS early at 62 and still feels she is entitled to a car, going out money and the like. She doesn't have this at the moment because she can't afford it but complains ALL THE TIME. I just found out today that she signed up for DirectTV - 2 year contract at $29.99 for the first 12 months then going up to I don't know what. She doesn't read the contract, she thinks she'll be paying $29.99 for the 24 months and I know that's not the truth because I looked into it 3 weeks ago when we moved. I told her to get a converter and antenna and get TV for free but she wants cable on $1600 a month. She lived with us for a year to get on her feet when she made no effort to ensure her bills were being paid or getting a part-time to get those bills down. She is really bad with finances, but this isn't the first time she's in a bad situation, it just keeps happening. Better believe that when next year comes around and her $29.99 goes up to $60, she'll have to figure it out because my charity is done.
The thing that gets to me is that in most countries except this one there is a national medical and pension plan. Here we have to fend for ourselves. My grandmother worked all her life in Russia...she gets a state pension and state medical. She's able to live on it, but it's not much. She's lived in her apartment for 60 years and doesn't drive. I think SS is necessary, SS payments should be enough to afford seniors a place to live and food on the table. Car and cable not necessary. Not everyone is savvy enough to save and plan.
I think SS is necessary, SS payments should be enough to afford seniors a place to live and food on the table. Car and cable not necessary. Not everyone is savvy enough to save and plan.
This is why our country has such as skewed view of what retirement truly IS. Retirement is not a God-given right or a basic need...retirement from a job/career is a LUXURY. Back in the "old days" when my great grandparents quit working, they had family members who lived with them and in exchange for free rent/food, my great grandparents were taken care of by the family. Obviously we no longer live in that type of society so we need to adjust our way of thinking.
If you are not prudent enough or intelligent enough to understand that you need to save money for your later years, what entitles you to a retirement? Retirement is something that is earned by investing, my saving income, by being determined to get ahead of the rat race. Social Security shouldn't be a retirement plan, it should be a supplement to whatever income you have coming from your pension, IRA, investments, etc.
This is why our country has such as skewed view of what retirement truly IS. Retirement is not a God-given right or a basic need...retirement from a job/career is a LUXURY. Back in the "old days" when my great grandparents quit working, they had family members who lived with them and in exchange for free rent/food, my great grandparents were taken care of by the family. Obviously we no longer live in that type of society so we need to adjust our way of thinking.
If you are not prudent enough or intelligent enough to understand that you need to save money for your later years, what entitles you to a retirement? Retirement is something that is earned by investing, my saving income, by being determined to get ahead of the rat race. Social Security shouldn't be a retirement plan, it should be a supplement to whatever income you have coming from your pension, IRA, investments, etc.
I'm a student of economics and I remember a certain statistic - there will always be a percentage of the population that will never be productive. This percentage will always rely on others, whether it is family, government or etc...what do we do with these people? As far as I remember in the US this percentage is around 5%. So no matter what we do, we will be due to provide support for roughly 15mil people no matter what. Just part of our american duty.
The thing becomes, for people like us that do work, is, it's all nice for these folks, but we will never get any of this, not that we would want to anyway, but we will always be supporting this because we live in society. It is something we can't avoid and at the same time nothing that we would wish on ourselves.
I'm a student of economics and I remember a certain statistic - there will always be a percentage of the population that will never be productive. This percentage will always rely on others, whether it is family, government or etc...what do we do with these people? As far as I remember in the US this percentage is around 5%. So no matter what we do, we will be due to provide support for roughly 15mil people no matter what. Just part of our american duty.
The thing becomes, for people like us that do work, is, it's all nice for these folks, but we will never get any of this, not that we would want to anyway, but we will always be supporting this because we live in society. It is something we can't avoid and at the same time nothing that we would wish on ourselves.
If these idiots aren't productive they should be in jail or shipped out. We don't need these kind of people. Unfortunately that would be inhumane....yet it's okay for them to leech off of the rest of us. Crazy.
If these idiots aren't productive they should be in jail or shipped out. We don't need these kind of people. Unfortunately that would be inhumane....yet it's okay for them to leech off of the rest of us. Crazy.
These are people who are severely physically, emotionally, or intellectually disabled. The 5% doesn't include people like the guy with Down's syndrome who works as a bagger at the grocery store - yes, he's making money, but not enough to fully support himself so he relies on a combination of government, family (if he has one that is willing and able to help), and charity.
Half of people in the world are going to be of below average intelligence. People in that bottom 15 - 20% of intelligence are going to really struggle to make it, even if they do work. These are the people that just *can't* grasp the mechanics of a credit card, don't have the ability to think to the future with savings, and never developed delayed gratification. If these people have strong support systems with parents with financial know-how, family that is able to encourage job skills and work ethic, and a support network to offer help, they can overcome their challenges. Many of these people do not have those benefits.
The people on this forum likely are of above average intelligence and are obviously showing interest in their financial future. When you have a certain level of intelligence, it can be difficult to understand why people with less intelligence do what they do. I'm lucky in a sense that I can pinpoint it - I went through what's known as "chemo brain" while going through cancer treatment, and now a year and a half out of treatment, it's still a daily fight to get my intelligence and memory back to where it was. In a period of 6 months, I watched my intelligence go down on almost a daily basis. My favorite books became impossible to get through, I still struggle to do the Sunday crossword puzzle (something I would do every Sunday and get almost every word), and economics concepts that once came fairly easily to me became very difficult to understand. I'd also do things like forget to pay bills or forget where I was going in my car. Writing and speaking with proper grammar, syntax, and clarity was another area that suffered - hard, because that's what I do for work! And I'd venture to guess that despite the challenges of chemo brain, I was still functioning above the average person. It's now very clear to me how a person who does not have those advantages can struggle.
Some people are always going to be disadvantaged by their intelligence. We can't penalize them, especially as society becomes more complex and our education system pushes everyone to college - for some people, the best they're ever going to be able to do is be a cashier, landscaper, or daycare provider making $10 an hour tops. We can only hope that they have families to help them either plan for their future or finance their future, but unfortunately, that's not true in far too many cases.
These are people who are severely physically, emotionally, or intellectually disabled. The 5% doesn't include people like the guy with Down's syndrome who works as a bagger at the grocery store - yes, he's making money, but not enough to fully support himself so he relies on a combination of government, family (if he has one that is willing and able to help), and charity.
Half of people in the world are going to be of below average intelligence. People in that bottom 15 - 20% of intelligence are going to really struggle to make it, even if they do work. These are the people that just *can't* grasp the mechanics of a credit card, don't have the ability to think to the future with savings, and never developed delayed gratification. If these people have strong support systems with parents with financial know-how, family that is able to encourage job skills and work ethic, and a support network to offer help, they can overcome their challenges. Many of these people do not have those benefits.
The people on this forum likely are of above average intelligence and are obviously showing interest in their financial future. When you have a certain level of intelligence, it can be difficult to understand why people with less intelligence do what they do. I'm lucky in a sense that I can pinpoint it - I went through what's known as "chemo brain" while going through cancer treatment, and now a year and a half out of treatment, it's still a daily fight to get my intelligence and memory back to where it was. In a period of 6 months, I watched my intelligence go down on almost a daily basis. My favorite books became impossible to get through, I still struggle to do the Sunday crossword puzzle (something I would do every Sunday and get almost every word), and economics concepts that once came fairly easily to me became very difficult to understand. I'd also do things like forget to pay bills or forget where I was going in my car. Writing and speaking with proper grammar, syntax, and clarity was another area that suffered - hard, because that's what I do for work! And I'd venture to guess that despite the challenges of chemo brain, I was still functioning above the average person. It's now very clear to me how a person who does not have those advantages can struggle.
Some people are always going to be disadvantaged by their intelligence. We can't penalize them, especially as society becomes more complex and our education system pushes everyone to college - for some people, the best they're ever going to be able to do is be a cashier, landscaper, or daycare provider making $10 an hour tops. We can only hope that they have families to help them either plan for their future or finance their future, but unfortunately, that's not true in far too many cases.
There but for the grace of G-d go I.
I have nothing wrong with people like you have talked about. Not everyone will be born with at least average intelligence or a perfect body with no disfigurement. The working class (18-65) should support the less fortunate since they didn't have a say how they were born or something serious happened to them.
I'm talking about the 17 year old girl who wants a baby or "hoes" her self around and gets pregnant and will never have a father figure for the child. Then they expect child support and even pop out another baby or two by age 21. Of course they make minimum wage or nothing and have to leech off their parents or the government.
Then there's the guy on unemployment who lost his job and sits there on the couch for a year and doesn't give a damn about even trying to be a productive worker for society.
They don't deserve any of this....the government is helping you out. At least for god sakes try and find a job and not use your $125 in food stamps for junk food at the grocery store.
These are the people who are the idiots and don't deserve anything. Bringing the whole country down imo. Child support and food stamps aren't a career move...your not supposed to be on this stuff for years. It is a supplemental government assistance to "get you off your feet" so to speak for awhile.
This is why our country has such as skewed view of what retirement truly IS. Retirement is not a God-given right or a basic need...retirement from a job/career is a LUXURY. Back in the "old days" when my great grandparents quit working, they had family members who lived with them and in exchange for free rent/food, my great grandparents were taken care of by the family. Obviously we no longer live in that type of society so we need to adjust our way of thinking.
If you are not prudent enough or intelligent enough to understand that you need to save money for your later years, what entitles you to a retirement? Retirement is something that is earned by investing, my saving income, by being determined to get ahead of the rat race. Social Security shouldn't be a retirement plan, it should be a supplement to whatever income you have coming from your pension, IRA, investments, etc.
While I agree with you that retirement isn't a right, what happens when someone is either mentally or physically unable to keep working?
It's not just irresponsible and stupid people who end up in a bad situation in old age. What about somone who does everything right but then the company they worked at for 40 years goes bankrupt and the pension they were counting on is severly cut or eliminated? And what if their savings and investments are depleted by illness, perhaps a shady advisor (Madoff anyone?) or thieving spouse, a period of unemployment, or just a general market downturn?
I have nothing wrong with people like you have talked about. Not everyone will be born with at least average intelligence or a perfect body with no disfigurement. The working class (18-65) should support the less fortunate since they didn't have a say how they were born or something serious happened to them.
I'm talking about the 17 year old girl who wants a baby or "hoes" her self around and gets pregnant and will never have a father figure for the child. Then they expect child support and even pop out another baby or two by age 21. Of course they make minimum wage or nothing and have to leech off their parents or the government.
Then there's the guy on unemployment who lost his job and sits there on the couch for a year and doesn't give a damn about even trying to be a productive worker for society.
They don't deserve any of this....the government is helping you out. At least for god sakes try and find a job and not use your $125 in food stamps for junk food at the grocery store.
These are the people who are the idiots and don't deserve anything. Bringing the whole country down imo. Child support and food stamps aren't a career move...your not supposed to be on this stuff for years. It is a supplemental government assistance to "get you off your feet" so to speak for awhile.
What I was trying to say is that there will always be a percentage of the population that will be like this - in this country and in all countries in the world. It's just part of human nature. I will try to find some actual sources with some scientific explanation for this. Whether these people feel entitled to the help, or feel that they don't need to do anything in this society or just don't care, I don't know. I do not believe that the statistic includes people with mental incapacities or physical disabilities. In a lot of countries around the world people that are mentally or physically unable to contribute, they are housed in state run institutions away from the general population, while in America we give these people a chance at a normal life and the treatment that they need.
What I was trying to say is (aside from mental/physical disability) we will always be taking care of people in our society. I think the fear is that if we don't care of this woman with 2 fatherless kids, she will lead a life of crime and/or spread disease and her kids will continue the trend. I think it is just easier to toss money at her for her to live in an apartment and put food on the table, and have access to basic education for her kids.
I'm not saying we shouldn't do this, I'm saying that the rest of us that do work and intend to do well, when we fall on bad times, we need to have safety nets that are adequate. I feel that unless you are the ultra rich or the ultra poor, there is no help for you even though you are required to help those less fortunate and not by choice. I believe SS is the same. I think it should be able to afford you the basics, housing, food and the like and I think this should be available to everyone in every generation. If you planned well and saved, paid off your house/car etc, then you can have more luxuries in retirement, if not, at least you have cheap, safe housing, heat/AC and food on the table.
While I agree with you that retirement isn't a right, what happens when someone is either mentally or physically unable to keep working?
It's not just irresponsible and stupid people who end up in a bad situation in old age. What about somone who does everything right but then the company they worked at for 40 years goes bankrupt and the pension they were counting on is severly cut or eliminated? And what if their savings and investments are depleted by illness, perhaps a shady advisor (Madoff anyone?) or thieving spouse, a period of unemployment, or just a general market downturn?
For those mentally/physically unable to work, there is disability - I think we need to make sure that it is adequate enough and that the person has access to free or affordable professional help.
I think the situation you describe with the pension is horrible. Maybe there should be a fund that companies that offer pensions contribute to as a sort of "pension insurance." Maybe the individual should contribute some out of their checks to this insurance so in the case that the company goes under, they still get their payout. As far as investments, the problem is that those aren't insured...when you invest in stocks etc, there is a disclaimer that you may lose it all. I am not supporting Madoff in anyway, but it is harder to protect against these things. I don't know exactly how people made the decision to give Madoff their money, but maybe there needs to be better regulation or possibly some sort of law that you can't invest more than a certain percentage of your overall net worth in uninsured investments. I'm just throwing things out here, I don't know.
I guess the thing is that in order to provide some of these safeguards to the general population, taxes will have to go up, a lot - like they are in most countries in the world. I actually wouldn't mind higher taxes if I knew I had some safeguards that were adequate in the case of something happening to me that I can't control - outsourcing of my industry, accident, illness, long term unemployment etc - I hate giving my money to support people that don't have any motivation and in the end not having any safety net in the case that something happens to me.
And while we are at it, can we put in some regulation as to these companies tricking people - whether it is credit card companies charging fees for things you can't figure out or the satellite company hiding the fact that during the second year of the contract your price will double. I know it's buyer be ware out there, but as we have established, many people just don't have the mental capacity to know any better.
I wish it was that simple. I've highlighted a few things that stood out. First off, relationships have changed these days, marriage isn't what it used to be, one, and two, we are a same sex couple, I would marry her yesterday and put her on my insurance but in our state of Florida United HealthCare does not provide benefits to domestic partners. Blue Cross Blue Shield does, so I will be looking for another job soon and only will take if I can get benefits for her. My GF's job actually does provide insurance to domestic partners opposite sex or same sex, so it's possible even without getting married, but my job at this moment does not.
Relationships have changed, but not everything has changed for the changing of relationships. Complete change takes time, and you clearly know this, so all I can suggest is living frugal, and trying your best to move to an area where the change is more complete given your situation. Get a job that pays benefits for domestic partnerships, move to a state that recognizes same sex marriage, etc..
Quote:
Originally Posted by katestar
Second, no, her mom takes home $1600 total between SS and pension to sit around and do nothing. One thing I will agree with you on is that she expects a similar lifestyle as to when she was working. She chose to take SS early at 62 and still feels she is entitled to a car, going out money and the like. She is really bad with finances, but this isn't the first time she's in a bad situation, it just keeps happening. Better believe that when next year comes around and her $29.99 goes up to $60, she'll have to figure it out because my charity is done.
Actually "it" doesn't just keep happening. She keeps happening, and you keep happening. She keeps happening because she never saved anything in life (if she could have) and even with her decent monthly income to sit around and do nothing, she still makes poor financial choices. You keep happening because you admit to bailing her out. The only one of those two "its" that you can do anything about is you. It is clear you have come to your senses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katestar
The thing that gets to me is that in most countries except this one there is a national medical and pension plan. Here we have to fend for ourselves. My grandmother worked all her life in Russia...she gets a state pension and state medical. She's able to live on it, but it's not much. She's lived in her apartment for 60 years and doesn't drive. I think SS is necessary, SS payments should be enough to afford seniors a place to live and food on the table. Car and cable not necessary. Not everyone is savvy enough to save and plan.
You complain about lack of funds, but my guess is you are like most others, and don't recognize the tax portion of your check. National healthcare will come, and it will be so costly, as it will likely suck horribly. Different countries have different cultures. Some counties with socialized healthcare could easily tell people that once they hit 65, they get nothing if they have certain ailments and what not. Can you imagine if that happened in the US, all hell would break loose if we instituted "death panels." The fact is, in order for government healthcare to work, you have to have people actually giving care, mostly doctors and nurses. If they don't get paid what they believe is fair, they will move on to do something else. I have no idea if government healthcare would work here or not, but I can assure you that those fools who somehow think it will be "free" will be shocked when their $200/month government job subsidized healthcare plan ends up costing them $1,000+/month in taxes!!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
