Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The other day I saw a television interview where a lady was trying to get a hospital to drop her bill to the same rate that they give insured people after they had charged her 5 times as much as somebody who had walked in the door with an insurance card. The interview got me to thinking about my own doctors bills, and I found out that my doctor charges uninsured people 3 times more than I pay, and a procedure I had last year would have been 20 times more expensive if I had paid with cash.
If gas stations or utility companies did something like this people would throw a fit and the government would file criminal charges against the offending companies.
Huh? Doctors and dentists almost always will knock 20-30% off the price for paying with cash since they don't have to waste time on the bureaucracy and get paid immediately.
Huh? Doctors and dentists almost always will knock 20-30% off the price for paying with cash since they don't have to waste time on the bureaucracy and get paid immediately.
20-30% is a lot less than the 66% to 95% (see my examples above) they'd knock off for insurance. In the case of the lady haggling with the ER, the hospital tried to offer her a 50% discount to settle, but she refused because she'd still be paying 2 1/2 times more than an insured person.
Hospitals won't give you a discount. I know cause I've asked.
And I had insurance. They refused to pay. The old tired legalese of "you have a crazy fever but didn't go to the primary care manager....at 3am when the place was closed...yes, you made an unauthorized visit to the ER....rejected, oh premium for next month is due next wee by the way". Yeah they didn't see a check from me ever.
Healthcare in this country is a racket. We need to pry its rotting core open, kicking-and-screaming nurses and medical administrators/insurance entitities be damned....
I think this is a gross exaggeration, no charge master is so grossly inflated that the charges are 5x or more the price after contractual adjustment. It's actually criminal to have one that over inflated, and CMS has armed agents.
Take 100 and you take 55% of that (average contractual reimbursement, no one pays 20%) and it's not even 2x...paying 100% instead of 50% is not 2 1/2 times it (2 1/2 times 50% is 125%). The math is incorrect.
Contractual adjustments exist because the insurance companies actually pay and have large volumes. The sad fact is a very large majority of people without insurance never pay for many reasons, and hospitals need money to continue operations. The charge master should average that into considerations to gain enough money for the hospital to keep it's door open, no hospital is running to the bank with wads of money. Some one must pay, no one will work for free.
Subsound - When my insurance company refused to pay for my gall bladder procedure, I had to go in and negotiate after the fact with providers. Due to unique circumstances (impossible to garnish wages, Florida homestead exemption) I was able to negotiate the hospital bill to 28% of what they wanted to charge me initially. That was in direct keeping with what Medicare would have paid.
It IS a f----ing racket. I'm livid about the way it has been allowed to grow out of control because the "negotiated" fees are often predicated on OUTRAGEOUS fees charged "retail." Bottom line is if a provider won't negotiate in good faith, go bankrupt and let them suck pond water.
This is pretty typical, when you buy health insurance you are really buying into a sort of discount program.
My wife had a visit, it included the doctor visit itself and several blood tests, the cash price came to $1110. The insurance payout was $110, or 10 cents on the dollar. Our co-pay was $15 so factor that in and you get $125 total for what a cash person would pay $1110 for.
Just think, if no one had insurance, we would all pretty much be paying the insurance rates and we would only need high deductible plans.
If you wreck your car and don't have insurance it doesn't get fixed, I'm not sure why that can't apply medical stuff either. Yet we continue paying for the uninsured. However forcing everyone, or more people, to become insured isn't the solution. It will just add profits to the health "insurance" companies.
My companies health insurance costs as a total (my contribution and theres) runs $16,000 a year for my wife and I. That money would be better spent going into some HSA or similar and paying out of doctors visits from there. For example My doctor charges $50 per visit thru the insurance reimbursement, however walking in off the street is $130. Pretty much anyone can afford doctors visits and labs at the rate the insurance companies pay.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
